amateriat
We're all light!
Sorry, Ruben, 'twas a meager attempt at some levity.
But I'm scratching my head a bit at why we're producing more heat than light on this. Some of us have a keener interest in the gear, others more on the process, and still others on the end result, but I seriously doubt many of do this at the exclusion of the other two. It comes back from the rather strong human desire to have others see matters from our individual POV, if only momentarily, and this occurs in most every endeavor where technology is involved, from photography to golf to cycling (forget film-versus-digital; get into a heated discussion about steel versus carbon fiber frames and you're liable to see barstools flying!). This is just how it goes. It just get a bit crazy when we invest too much of our egos in all this. Been there and done that myself. I certainly have opinions on all this stuff, and, if asked, I'll gladly offer them. But I'd really, really, rather be taking (and printing) photos.
And, I like RFf because, somehow, most of the time, I see a nice balance of discussion of both process and result.
- Barrett
R
ruben
Guest
Thanks you Barret.
Your phrase about "this occurs where technology is involved", discloses the mistake of comparing Photography to Literature. Because if Literature is to be considered as an Art, then Artistic Photography would have to be put besides it, instead of photography in genereal.
Artistic Photography is of course very much a part of photography, but neither its main side, nor the only one, of course. I would like to hear any of the above coward stadium jerks stand up and claim that artistic photography is more important for humanity progress that medicinal photographic aplications like the CT.
Cheers,
Ruben
Your phrase about "this occurs where technology is involved", discloses the mistake of comparing Photography to Literature. Because if Literature is to be considered as an Art, then Artistic Photography would have to be put besides it, instead of photography in genereal.
Artistic Photography is of course very much a part of photography, but neither its main side, nor the only one, of course. I would like to hear any of the above coward stadium jerks stand up and claim that artistic photography is more important for humanity progress that medicinal photographic aplications like the CT.
Cheers,
Ruben
amateriat
We're all light!
Ruben, I get some of what you mean. Then again, much of the photography which has been vaulted to the level of Art started out as purely a technical exercise, from Muybridge to Edgerton and beyond. Attention to technical detail was a major point in these images, and yet time and observation has allowed these images to transcend their techy trappings. (We can go on about what does and doesn't make the cut as "art", and why, but we're in enough hot water with what we've got right here.)
And...thinking about the technology of literature, tickles my brain a bit, too, but I haven't had dinner yet. Can't show up to a gunfight with just a switchblade.
- Barrett
And...thinking about the technology of literature, tickles my brain a bit, too, but I haven't had dinner yet. Can't show up to a gunfight with just a switchblade.
- Barrett
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
If I played the piano I think Id want to know alot about the diff pianos and their respective quality of sound to produce the best music. Id probably want to play alot of pianos too.
How is this diff with camera gear?
How is this diff with camera gear?
charjohncarter
Veteran
I'm very happy with RFF, I would like more discussion under the 'film development etc' forum. But I still like the 'other stuff' too. I have purchased cameras that I would never have considered, but learned about on RFF, albeit some losers. So basically I'm happy if some of you explore the pluses and misuses of the Nikonos cameras, I may or may not choose to jump in. I guess I like all parts of RFF even if I'm not interested in some of them.
Pablito
coco frío
In some ways, not that different. Your key phrase above is "to produce the best music". Means to an end, that's cool. But IF I interpret the original post correctly, and that is a big IF, he seems to suggest that it's really all about the piano, and the music itself plays....err...... second fiddle....
Pappy
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There's nothing so beautiful as a well turned piano leg.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Yes, you're right, but it's not necessarily a bad thing to know all one can about the piano, or gear. There is no good/bad. These are just personal judgements.
Pablito
coco frío
You need to know just enough about the gear to get what you need from it, no more no less. Everyone needs to define that for themselves.
R
ruben
Guest
This had been truth if RFF was a forum of Artistic Photography exclusively. But it is much broader than that and everyone has freedom of speech on all the aspects concerning all the subforums which the "forums" button leads you, including the OFF TOPIC one.
Disclaiming your pose at this thread, this is the list of threads you yourself opened at RFF:
New camera bag alternative...
Max Roach: RIP
I AM A MAN! -- Ernest Withers, photographer RIP
Careful if bidding on this M6...
A perhaps minor question on D200 vs. D300 for those who have both
getting the most for your item on the auction site
Documenting the Face of America, on PBS, Monday
Any solution for high resolution slide show with synchronized sound?
Panasonic DMC LX3 and use of viewfinder
Obama's People
The f-stop mystique - a question for optical engineers or the tech-savvy
In view of this list, if you were a pianist, you had been interested a lot in the pianos wood and other far issues, like the best bag to carry your musical compositions.
Accordingly would you like to define your rant against RFF, or against the right of any member who wishes it to talk about camera bags ?
Cheers,
Ruben
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I fixed my Daughter's DSI tonight. The "touch Screen Protector" had contracted just a little and was putting pressure on the touch screen. Games running amuck. She was SO impressed that moving the screen protector fixed the problems. Remember that when your kid's Nintendo freaks out.
I began taking things apart when I was Five. Got cameras back together than I was twelve. I like knowing everything about them.
I've been using the Internet since 1980. That's almost 30 years now. There is nothing about RFF that challenges the Internet. It is an Internet forum where members discuss mostly archaic equipment used to make photographs. A few members use modern implementations of archaic technology, such as the Leica M8. A key Nameserver going down will challenge the Internet. At times I find the Internet Forums "Challenging" when too much belly button gazing gets way too serious.
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Pappy
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Ruben, I have looked for Pablito's "rant against RFF" everywhere but can't find it.
Could you please direct me?
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Brian,
Perhaps I will be misinterpreting it, but it seems to me that Back Alley holds a different opinion. Hereby what he wrote at the o.p. of his recent thread thread:
"i am wondering, based on many negative comments about rff being a gear oriented site and the inferences made that would indicate that some feel a gear site somehow is a barrier to creative improvement...what you think about it?
can being on the net too much really stifle our creativity?
does talking about gear with like minded folks deter us from using that same gear in a creative manner?
does my rambling on about which lens to get next or sell next or why i am liking the drf experience so much really stop others from enjoying their photographic experiences?
will using one lens and one camera help us to see better?
will taking a break from the few people on the planet that 'get it', it being the rf experience, somehow clear the mind of the foolishness that sometimes passes as intelligent conversation?
will not seeing poor photographs being hailed as great, or hearing the 'experts' praise lenses that are old and passed their prime really impact anyone to the point that their photography will noticeably improve?
i am so very curious.
i am amazed that an internet forum can hold such power over so many.
should we all just go out and photograph our part of the world, post on flickr and then go out and shoot some more?
or is there hope for us that like to chat, be it electronically or not, with others whose eyes do not glaze over when the word rangefinder is spoken?
i am curious to hear what others have to say.
joe"
In other words Brian, had RFF been just another forum dealing with arhcaic cameras (and there are a few) we would be stagnating instead of being teased out of jelousy.
Cheers,
Ruben
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R
ruben
Guest
It is not different than yours, otherwise you both hadn't joined that Brittish stadium style hoolygan bunch to block this thread from evolving within argumentation, instead of destroying whatever you found around by means of curry and other stupid minded unrelated associations.
Our anti-gear talk artists aspirants converted into street hoolygans in this thread - what an artistic performance you have given us !
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Pappy
-
I've read and re-read all your posts in this thread. I still don't understand you.
WHAT DO YOU WANT ?
R
ruben
Guest
I've read and re-read all your posts in this thread. I still don't understand you.
WHAT DO YOU WANT ?
If you did not understand the o.p., then I do not understand on which basis have you joined the hoolygan gang that attempted to destroy the thread, unless the spirit of thread destruction has a special appeal to you.
Now, I will try to explain it to you personally, again:
There is an ongoing recent thread, called internet forums vs. creativity & improvement, somehow trying to defend RFF right for free gear speech, and perhaps the USA constitution, so to speak.
I have been repeating over and over that the world of Photography goes far beyond image making. No wonder I seem to be a lonely voice in the desert since we seem to be all a group of artists or going-to-be-artists.
But it is only now that I come to realize in quite precise terms the weak point leading us to fail time and again when pointed with the finger about our gear talk.
The trap into which we seem to fall time and again is simple to death. When we discuss our right to open our mouth, our right to breath, or any other basic right we should be undertaking without discussion - the problem is that we start from the same false axiomas by which we are attacked as a forum.
I would like to invite each of us to the page detailing all the sub-forums we have: just click the "forums" button on this page, above, and point me where else this richness is found.
"Of course", some may replay, but it is the image what is above all. Therefore, under this false outrageous ignorant flat minded premise, we are just another forum, and not a special one, not a rich one, NOT THE UNIQUE FORUM THAT WE ARE INDEED.
This is highly important, to my opinion, as a RFF proud member who takes its membership not as a casual fact, but as a source of pride, deep comunity pride.
To my humble opinion folks, art is not the most important, not in the world, not in life. Nor the concept of art is so clear that we can say we all are discussing about the same thing.
Finally I also fail to understand where are the hard core medals, or credentials, under which those postulating the image making as above all can justifyiedly claim their own creation is of worldwide reckognition, or even town local reckognition, or even undisputable hystoric reckognition, or undisputable creations by themselves, enabling such ignorant-life empty talk putting into question marks the true creative dynamics of RFF discussions.
I would also like to express my symphaties with the consumers of RFF LIGHT, who never miss RFF space to express how bored they are with the forum, where they only come to find a rest after their long day of creativity. These guys are unique. Their creation.... hmmm.
Because the ABC of art, any art, starts with originality, with shaking yourself from old axiomas and "answering a question that has not yet asked" with their work. And I am very curious to see it on RFF detractors.
Cheers,
Ruben
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acheyj
Well-known
Ahh now I get it straps should be black
ron
ron
Pappy
-
Ruben,
That is just a cut and paste of your opening post.
It remains an unintelligible rant.
I can't see anybody trying to curtail your freedom to talk about "gear".
Is somebody discriminating against you? Are your "gear" threads being censored?
Have you received threats from the "Art Police"?
That is just a cut and paste of your opening post.
It remains an unintelligible rant.
I can't see anybody trying to curtail your freedom to talk about "gear".
Is somebody discriminating against you? Are your "gear" threads being censored?
Have you received threats from the "Art Police"?
amateriat
We're all light!
Part of what I think Fred is driving at, is: life is tricky. Lives interacting online, in a forum such as this, is even trickier. Misunderstandings are bound to occur, and multiply. We should take our thoughts, and efforts, seriously, but perhaps not take ourselves quite so seriously. Levity, in certain doses, isn't only necessary for the psyche (well, at least I think so), but sometimes is the catalyst to the answers we seek.
(It's past two in the morning here, and I'm jonesing for a good cupcake...)
- Barrett
(It's past two in the morning here, and I'm jonesing for a good cupcake...)
- Barrett
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Ruben,
I have no idea what you're getting at, other that you disagree with disagreement, and you can only agree with what you agree, and again are shaking your finger at people who don't fit into something or the other because something or the other.
Oscar Levant (if that is his real name ::raising brows and tapping my cigar:: ) is spot-on.
I have no idea what you're getting at, other that you disagree with disagreement, and you can only agree with what you agree, and again are shaking your finger at people who don't fit into something or the other because something or the other.
Oscar Levant (if that is his real name ::raising brows and tapping my cigar:: ) is spot-on.
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