Ribbons fine, shutter won't fire.

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De_Corday

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Hey all. Sorry for opening a thread here when I already opened one in the repair forum, but I think I can refine my questions at this point.

So I have a Contax II. I know it has only had one owner. It's been given to me as a bit of a project, so, please excuse my ignorance on these cameras, I'm here to learn.

Basicaly, when I got the camera, the shutter wouldn't cock. The curtains would make it about half-way up the film gate and then just sit there. I figured there was an obstruction, so I pulled the film-gate cover off. There was no obstruction, and now the shutter would, with some force on the winding knob, cock. But when I fired the shutter, the bottom curtain barely moved, and the top one stayed wrapped around the drum. Now, I can freely move the bottom curtain by hand along the ribbons, but the top curtain is still wrapped around the upper drum. The entire shutter seems either very under-tensioned or, more likely, very gummed up.

I am hesitant to fiddle with the springs, and I am hesitant to remove the shutter crate as I have heard I'll start running into sync problems. Can anyone give me a push in the right direction?
 
Do not force anything!
When cocking the shutter with failed springs or ribbons the syncing of the complete movement will be lost. When this happens, fire the shutter to release the wind-on lock and continue to wind on - it should re-sync automatically. Once the cocking is therefore complete both curtains should be at the top and covering the the film gate. If one is lopsided then the catches on the reverse of the spring steel band (This is a narrow band of spring steel that has tiny catches on the reverse of each side.) at the top of the first curtain (lower) are not engaging or the central shutter catch that captures the first curtain at the end of travel is not engaging. Both may be gently bent to solve this but it is better to remove the spring steel band to work on it so that you get a consistent bend - a single radius. The central shutter catch is exposed when the cover is removed.

It also sounds like the bottom drum springs may have failed, probably the first curtain drum spring, which is the centre one. You can check this by cocking the shutter as far as it will go and de-coupling the first curtain (lower) by gently lifting the edges of the horizontal spring steel band at it's top. It should slide down the ribbons if the spring is still alive.
Contax parts are not available but Kiev parts mostly fit and the first curtain drum from a doner Kiev is a good replacement - the leather brake has to be stripped and swapped over from the Contax and glued in place on the replacement Kiev unit. I believe a chap called Oleg - mentioned in these forums - can do this work and is reliable and quick. At the same time he can service the camera completely, replace the ribbons (you may as well) and return a camera that might go on for another 80 years.
Kevin
 
The link to Oleg: http://www.okvintagecamera.com/

If you want the camera working well, and don't necessarily care about it being repaired with Kiev parts, I think he's the way to go. His rates are very reasonable too. I have a Contax III that the previous owner had sent to him; works great.

You may want to fix this yourself, and you may well have the aptitude and patience to do it. But as you no doubt have gathered, these are very complex cameras.
 
Oleg's work is certainly reasonably priced and he seems to have a great reputation. I'm split between wanting to put the Sonnar 50 through its paces immediately and wanting to learn a thing or two about repairing a complex shutter like this...

Walk with me on this: The top curtain is pulled down by the bottom curtain, right? so the top curtain's refusal to budge could be related to the lack of any real spring tension in the bottom curtain. The rear curtain moves about 2mm when released, and does so slowly. Is it possible that a failed lower drum spring would be the sole cause of the problem? And if I decided to try to fix/investigate this myself, what would I be in danger of breaking that would make for a more expensive shipment to Oleg later on down the line? Am I correct in assuming my only option for parts is another Contax or Kiev?
 
De_Corday said:
Is it possible that a failed lower drum spring would be the sole cause of the problem? And if I decided to try to fix/investigate this myself, what would I be in danger of breaking that would make for a more expensive shipment to Oleg later on down the line? Am I correct in assuming my only option for parts is another Contax or Kiev?
Click to expand...

- yes, very likely,
- the ribbons will break sooner or later (more sooner than later) if they are original and never got replaced yet, so they will have to be replaced anyway. Oleg won't install new silk ribbons in an original Contax shutter : he will install a Kiev shutter box in your camera,
- yes.
 
There is another thread from the last week or so mentioning Aki-Asahi as a source for replacement shutter ribbons, FYI. As for a new drum spring, you'll need a donor body -- don't know if a Kiev drum spring will do, though.
 
KoNickon said:
There is another thread from the last week or so mentioning Aki-Asahi as a source for replacement shutter ribbons, FYI. As for a new drum spring, you'll need a donor body -- don't know if a Kiev drum spring will do, though.
Click to expand...
Yes Aki Asahi silk ribbons are a premium material choice to repair an original Contax shutter. But Oleg won't do it. This is where learning the DIY course is mandatory.

A Kiev drum spring is perfect to repair a broken Contax shutter. The spring and drums are 100% identical.
 
So -- if you're brave enough to do it yourself, get the Aki-Asahi ribbon and find a donor Kiev body, I guess. Anyone know whether the newer Kiev drum springs are of the same quality as the earlier ones? I'm thinking that all other things being equal, a newer part will be better.
 
There's also this, taken from the zeisscamera.com site:

... The problem with this approach is that one turn too many (about nine turns) on the adjustment screw will destroy the spring that pulls down the lower shutter curtain. Once this spring is destroyed a new shutter curtain is required because there is no way to replace the center spring on the shutter shaft.​

Has anyone successfully swapped the spring? If I have to swap the curtains, am I better swapping the whole shutter unit?
 
Hi The link just worked for me so is alive. It is the ussrphoto.com site just hunt around and you can find the page - it is clearly marked English version. In History Documents and Ephemera and then go to publications
I had a centre spring or maybe internal drum unit replaced in Kiev by a Unkrainian technician, so it its possible. They made them in the 1930's so presumably they can be unmade and fixed. The shutter came back to me working, with all the original parts still in place - curtain, outer drum etc. I have stripped one down to the internal drum but did not have the parts to replace the middle spring - it may also require a jig.
Good luck
Kevin
 
De_Corday said:
Has anyone successfully swapped the spring? If I have to swap the curtains, am I better swapping the whole shutter unit?
Click to expand...

It isn't difficult to swap the drum unit in which the spring is hooked. So you don't need to swap the curtains. The Kiev drum is 100% identical to the Contax one but for the felt brake (which can be swapped as well : the Contax shutter spring drum is fitted with a piece of leather while the Kiev is fitted with a piece of felt).

Plus - using a new shutter spring drum allows you to very comfortably install and stitch the lower new ribbons loops by just removing the caps located at the ends of the drums with a screwdriver, and reinstalling them once the ribbons are in place. Doing this way you can even stitch the ribbons loops before attaching the loops to the little bars of the drum - very convenient !

overhaul85.jpg


Not everything you can read on zeisscamera.com has to be taken as the Holy Bible.
 
De_Corday said:
There's also this, taken from the zeisscamera.com site:
... --------------------------------------------------------​
Has anyone successfully swapped the spring? If I have to swap the curtains, am I better swapping the whole shutter unit?
Click to expand...
I guess you didn't see this page. I have no connection at all to Mr Scherer, but thought you might wish to be aware of its content.
http://www.zeisscamera.com/legal.shtml
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii said:
I guess you didn't see this page. I have no connection at all to Mr Scherer, but thought you might wish to be aware of its content.
http://www.zeisscamera.com/legal.shtml
Click to expand...

I guess you are not aware of what a short quote from an identified and clearly named author is.

This is not as if whole pages had been copied from a website (one or another) then pasted here by De_Corday without any mention of their original URL.
 
Highway 61 said:
- yes, very likely,
Oleg won't install new silk ribbons in an original Contax shutter : he will install a Kiev shutter box in your camera,
Click to expand...
It's a lie...
I've never did such replacing, all repaired Contaxes have an original parts only. Yes, I use Arsenal ribbon, but never replaced Contax part by Kiev one.
 
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