Ricoh announces GXR system with new "cartridge" interchangable lenses and sensor

[Jodorowsky]

Excellent idea. One step closer to the future, where cameras come with a sensor slot. (I haven't really thought this concept through, admittedly).

 

[ZeissFan]

OK, now I see it. Interesting concept, for sure.

I was going to take the curmudgeonly approach and state that I don't see how this can be anything but a commercial failure, but instead I'll just take a "wait and see" attitude.

It just seems that tying the imaging chip to the lens will make it unnecessarily costly. However, it does end the debate CMOS vs. CCD, as the buyer gets to choose. Should eliminate the sensor dust problem.

Back in the late 1990s, Minolta tried this with an early DImage. The lens detached from the body, and Minolta said it would allow them to upgrade the imaging end. Never happened.

Ricoh's Flash site is very slow.

 

[Ezzie]

Another R-D1 user finding the idea intriguing. Each sensor adapted to the lens, or vice versa. The pros of each can be adapted to the other for best results. All the time keeping the size of the package down. Want more zoom? Reduce the size of the sensor, without having to add a clonking big lens - OK more noise at high ISOs in the dark, but that's not when (or where) you'll be using the long focal lengths anyhow. Want wide angle? Larger sensor, better sensitivity for those indoor candids, done. Want a better sensor in the future? Will get that too.

Has my vote, .........for now.

 

[BearCatCow]

Focusing speed can really be tuned for the lens size. I kind of agree with the idea of a design approach reminiscent of the Nikon F. You could bring out just a sensor back in F, M, S, OM and K mount without too much trouble in APS-C. Wonder how long before they could come out with a full frame back in the same?

I'm hoping. The video got me very interested.

B2 (;->

Some interesting information: (maybe M mount for it someday!)
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Ricoh_GXR_camera_Interview_pictures_and_first_look_update_news_291580.html?offset=&offset=2

General information:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0911/09111001ricohgxr.asp

Sample pics from Ricoh website:
http://www.ricoh.co.jp/dc/gxr/sample.html

Also interesting is that the image processor is contained in the cartridge. So your body is really just a battery + user interface. In the interview they suggest that there may be future bodies with built in EVF and other variations, much like the m4/3 body variations.

 

[jarski]

lens & sensor unit should be cheaper to replace than the entire camera, but does the body take all future needs into account, and for how far ? e.g. speed for storing images to SD-card. things like that age pretty fast.

btw. if Leica had come up with this concept, I bet this thread would be twice as long of comments how absurd and expensive it is... (am a bit grumpy after dropping my camera to pavement yesterday, still trying to kick myself butt occasionally...)

 

[Pickett Wilson]

So other makers will be busy introducing new cameras while Ricoh is producing new modules at the same price as new cameras. Looks like a gimmick to me.

 

[ethranet]

Where it really would get interesting.

Where it really would get interesting.

I would buy into this system if they offered sensor modules with an interchangeable lens mount and different sensor types. An infrared sensor, a UV sensor, a black and white sensor etc...

 

[Kevin]

Bad idear, stay away. This reeks of one of them thar new-fangled "system" cameras that used to be introduced every so often in the film camera heyday, usually by 2nd tier players swingin' for the fence trying to come up with the "next big thing", their very own "M mount" (or whatever) , that never catches on and dies... So you're stuck with an expensive "system" camera with no new lenses, no one to repair it should it break, hard/impossible to get parts if there is someone to repair it, difficult/impossible/expensive-to-get-on-the-used-market lenses... etc., etc., etc.... You know this drill.

+1

Moreover, if this new system design is patented, so we might not be offered any economical lens units from 3rd parties, such as Sigma, Tokina or Tamron, for the next 17 years.

 

[Rayt]

I think it is a great idea to match the sensor to the lens that is if we can see obvious performance gains. I am looking forward to this.

 

[Solinar]

Bad idear, stay away. This reeks of one of them thar new-fangled "system" cameras that used to be introduced every so often in the film camera heyday.

Back in the day of leaf shutters, all of the 1st and 2 tier German manufacturers had their own proprietary mounts. Agfa, Kodak-Stuttgart, Voigtlander and Zeiss-Ikon each had an esoteric interchangeable lens RF or SLR to offer. Unfortunately the shutter and the rear lens group stayed with the camera. So, there were some crippling compromises on the wide-end.

Ricoh is a niche player that needs to remain competitive in the face of the mirrorless Micro 4/3rd competition. Rather than do a Sigma DP, it looks like they opted for a modular unit to hold onto their sliver of the pie.

The 33mm Macro that everyone is calling 50 looks interesting. I hope it has some proper weather sealing.

Think of the stink everyone would make if this had been a Leica innovation.

 

[Solinar]

+1

Moreover, if this new system design is patented, so we might not be offered any economical lens units from 3rd parties, such as Sigma, Tokina or Tamron, for the next 17 years.

That's a major minus. Proprietary systems like this are never able to reach a critical mass. So with low volumes even the original manufacturer's costs will remain high.

As a dead end system, as I call them - if the manufacturer stops producing module for whatever reason, you will be left out in the cold should something fail within a module or decide that you finally wish to add another one to body.

 

[AJShepherd]

I would buy into this system if they offered sensor modules with an interchangeable lens mount and different sensor types. An infrared sensor, a UV sensor, a black and white sensor etc...

You took the words right out of my mouth!
A black and white sensor coupled with a good lens could produce some excellent results. No bayer filtering, no colour interpolation, no anti-aliasing, just incredibly sharp black and white images.

 

[ernstk]

Bad idear, stay away. This reeks of one of them thar new-fangled "system" cameras that used to be introduced every so often in the film camera heyday, usually by 2nd tier players swingin' for the fence trying to come up with the "next big thing", their very own "M mount" (or whatever) , that never catches on and dies... So you're stuck with an expensive "system" camera with no new lenses, no one to repair it should it break, hard/impossible to get parts if there is someone to repair it, difficult/impossible/expensive-to-get-on-the-used-market lenses... etc., etc., etc.... You know this drill.

You mean like Nikon, Canon and Hasselblad?

Ernst

 

[retnull]

Want a better sensor in the future? Will get that too.

Problem is -- three years from now, when a superior sensor/lens module becomes available...will you still really want to use the same old GXR body? Especially when other manufacturers will (by that time) offer improved LCDs, menu systems, ergonomics, etc?

 

[jsrockit]

Problem is -- three years from now, when a superior sensor/lens module becomes available...will you still really want to use the same old GXR body? Especially when other manufacturers will (by that time) offer improved LCDs, menu systems, ergonomics, etc?

Why not...people continue to use old mechanical cameras despite advances in technology.

 

[Merkin]

Problem is -- three years from now, when a superior sensor/lens module becomes available...will you still really want to use the same old GXR body? Especially when other manufacturers will (by that time) offer improved LCDs, menu systems, ergonomics, etc?

I think that is kind of the point- the user has the freedom to choose. If the original body is just fine for you, you keep using it. If you like your lens/sensor combos, but you want an upgraded body, you can buy one. If you want one lens and all the bodies, you can have it. If you want one body and all the lenses, you can have that too, or anything in between.

Let's assume for a moment that this succeeds enough for the system to still be around in four or five years. We already see that there is one small body, a small sensored zoom, and a larger sensored normal macro prime. In four or five years, there will be a couple more bodies, perhaps a really small one, and a larger one, perhaps with good weather sealing and a built in EVF. There will also be a number of other lens/sensors, perhaps by then with sensor sizes from compact to full frame available, with wides, teles, pancakes, and additional zooms. This would mean that from the same interchangeable set of parts, you could put together anything from a quasi-dslr with a long portrait lens to a tiny subcompact with a decent zoom range, or even the other way around. The range of possibilities is pretty freakin massive. Let's say you want to take snaps of a kid's birthday party, but the weather calls for drizzle. You want the heavier duty body with the better weather sealing, but the small zoom for versatility. Let's say you want to take pictures at a U2 concert after the third song. You take the smallest, most unobtrusive body you have, but the lens/sensor with the best performance, and even though it would look silly, it wouldnt look any more silly than some of the super zoom point and shoots. Let's say you want to just have a camera to carry around all day. You take the body whose controls feel most intuitive to you, and a pancake prime.

 

[BearCatCow]

Pictures taken with the GXR

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0911/09111002ricohgxrgallery.asp

 

[BearCatCow]

So other makers will be busy introducing new cameras while Ricoh is producing new modules at the same price as new cameras. Looks like a gimmick to me.

Unless of course that new camera is the Leica X1, in which case you can get 3 modules for your Ricoh. 😉

Seriously now, like the Leica X1 I think this is an awesome idea but a bit out there and just too pricey...

 

[Ronald_H]

My sentiments are accurately reflected in this thread.

- 'That's not what I want/need/thought off'.

- Ricoh is a small player, so it will die quickly if it does not take off massively.

- Damn, that is quite brilliant and opens the road to a truly modular camera system.

Let's see what the APS-C with the fast prime can do...

 

[Way]

Sample images, IMO, look pretty good at ISO1600.