Ricoh announces GXR system with new "cartridge" interchangable lenses and sensor

it would be a big step forward...into my pocketbook.

i was looking at the samples on dpreview, and a thought crossed my mind: the 50mm macro will be a huge hit with the food blogging crowd. it's perfect for taking pictures of food in restaurants with natural light.
 
The concept of the integral prime lens/sensor/shutter assembly appears to have reaped some real world engineering advantages if the IQ of the newly reviewed Leica X1 is any indication.
The X1 uses a integral fixed focal length lens/sensor/shutter sub-assembly that is relative to Ricoh’s design, albeit non-user exchangeable.
Perhaps, for ultimate image quality (all other parameters being equal) this is the new paradigm in large sensor, compact digital camera design.
At first blush, Ricoh’s 50mm module IQ looks amazing. We’ll have to wait to see how it stacks up against the X1.
Will we have to wait till Q2 before a APSc 35mm equivalent module is available for the Ricoh?
I’d imagine by then we’ll see some of the other major players offer some sort of compact, large sensor camera incorporating the same design principals.
If they do, from all indications, IQ ain’t gonna be an issue. It’s now all about the user interface and 'operability'.
After all, who cares about IQ if the thing takes all day to focus or has excessive shutter lag?
Looking forward to a comprehensive test/review of the Ricoh GXR.
 
malland said:
Because, in the light of the concept of the GXR, which is based on optimized sensor/lens modules that allow the user to use a single camera interface for a variety of lens types and sensor formats, providing a mount module without an integrated optimized sensor, this would be a step backward rather than forward. Or am I misinterpreting what you meant?
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Probably not. It is just an idea, no offense intended. A sensor is just a sensor. I thought it would be nice if it could be swappable too.

That means, if the company developed a newer, better, bigger, cleaner sensor, I just had not to dump the whole lens sensor unit, but just could replace the sensor. Or if I do not need 20 Megapixels, I could just plug in a 6 Meg one, or a monochrome optimized one... I do not think that this would be a step back, or have you seen such a system on the market?

And what does optimized lens/sensor unit mean? Taking a good lens and a good sensor? Theoretically one could choose each one oneself and optimize the system to ones specific needs without the need to buy a preselected package.

The only point is, all components should interplay nicely, so the interfaces needed some kind of standardization.

Just an idea.
 
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"The X1 uses a integral fixed focal length lens/sensor/shutter sub-assembly that is relative to Ricoh’s design, albeit non-user exchangeable."

As do most digital P&S's (although many have zooms).

I think the whole optimizing sensor to specific lens is more sales speak then real world advantage. And I suspect the economies of interchangeable sensors are illusory as well. As if many folks are going to hang onto cameras long enough to reap any advantage. As a group on RFF, we change film cameras and even formats at a drop of the hat. Let's get real, who's going to keep this Ricoh when Panasonic or Olympus drop their next "game changer?" :)
 
gho said:
... I thought it would be nice if it could be swappable too...And what does optimized lens/sensor unit mean? Taking a good lens and a good sensor? Theoretically one could choose each one oneself and optimize the system to ones specific needs without the need to buy a preselected package....
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Many people are reacting to the 'waste' of the GXR sensor/lens module concept in that, when upgrading to a new sensor, the lens cannot be kept. The Ricoh website has a 14-page brochure on the GXR that explains the rationale for the closed sensor/lens module. Page 4 of the brochure states (in marketing-speak):

Compact, high-performance lens design at a level only possible with the interchangeable unit system:
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It is the lens that gives life to the photograph. In interchangeable lens camera systems up to now, the distance from the mount and the back of the lens to the sensor image plane was subject to requirements for flange back distance and back focal length. This made it difficult to achieve both compactness and high optical performance.

Eliminating the lens mount, however, means that the back focal length can be freely defined for the GXR, enabling it to use the most opticallyefficient lens designs with the minimum size. In addition, combining the lens and image sensor increases design flexibility so camera units can be developed based on a variety of concepts. This practical inspiration has given birth to a totally new camera system with portability, high image quality and superb expandability and growth potential as a system.
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Thus, it seems to me, that once there is a new sensor, that there will be changes in the lens, as the sensor/lens combination is optimized. That will mitigate the "waste" of getting rid go both the lens and sensor when upgrading. The GXR brochure also elaborates on how the closed sensor/lens module permits optimization:

Designs optimized to make the most of lens and image sensor capabilities
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In order to make the best use of the inherent power of the lens and the image sensor, the ideal solution is to combine both in a single unit. Consider, for example, the low-pass filter covering the surface of the image sensor.

The dilemma faced is that while the filter helps prevent color noise and color moiré, increasing this benefit results in an ever greater sacrifice in lens resolution. Traditional interchangeable lens systems must use a single low-pass filter for all lenses so they are unable to avoid situations where the filter effect is excessive or inadequate. With the GXR, on the other hand, we can design a low-pass filter optimized for the resolution of the specific lens. In this way, Ricoh has succeeded in effectively preventing color noise while minimizing filter influence on lens resolution.
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So there's a little more at stake here than just a question of being able to purchace cheaper individual lenses and infividual camera separately.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Walks in Bamgkok (GRD3)
 
Thanks for the clarification. I am also looking forward to the first reviews.
 
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Let's get real, who's going to keep this Ricoh when Panasonic or Olympus drop their next "game changer?" :)
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That's one reason I still feel most comfortable with film cameras. They are out there in abundance and sometimes proven by the test of many decades.
 
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Well, it's not like there is a great future in film cameras. But I just can't see how it would benefit camera makers to be upgrading bits and pieces of cameras. Or that consumers would really mess with all of that anyway, consumer behavior being what it is.
 
Pickett Wilson said:
But I just can't see how it would benefit camera makers to be upgrading bits and pieces of cameras. Or that consumers would really mess with all of that anyway, consumer behavior being what it is.
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I agree, it is quite hard to predict how the market would react to such a modular system. I am curious how the GXR will be doing. But a highly modular system could be interesting for a niche of technophiles and photographers, who like to mess with digital gear.

Now how about making the firmware and system calls open (not on the GXR, but on the imaginary turbo module camera), so that it could be reprogrammed and adapted to ones hearts content? Think CHDK with open, modular hardware platform. I am beginning to like the idea.
 
IMHO this is a pretty stupid idea. The real value of a camera system is in the lenses, not the body - therefor it makes way more sense to change the body when new sensor technology comes around than throwing away all your lenses. If they had somehow figured out how to isolate the sensor from the lens design and body design, then they might have a winning combination, but this is just ridiculous. I am pretty sure that we won't see this system around for very long.
 
My takeaway from this is that the camera/system clearly has some issues, but Ricoh appears to have nailed image quality, including relatively-high ISO performance. Not going to slip on my track shoes to run out and get one, but I'll be curious to hear more info as it comes across.


- Barrett
 
Solinar said:
This isn't a poor person's camera to be sure - but those high ISO images at DPReview with the 33mm lens and APS-C CMOS sensor look pretty clean to me for a pocketable digicam.
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That's the problem... it isn't truly pocketable, unless you are a kangaroo.
 
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