lawnpotter
Well-known
Hi, I am new to this forum. I recently bought a GRD2 and I like it but I also want a film camera. If I bought a voigtlander and put a pancake lense on it like a 21mm or 28mm(what name brand do you recommend?)would the image quality be much much better than a Ricoh gr1? I like the GR1 for its small size. I like the Besssa cause it is still in production and I am thinking IQ should be better than GR1. Thanks for your help.
BillBingham2
Registered User
The GR-D2 and GR-D1 share the same lens, a wonderful 28mm, one of the best in any fixed lens digital. I had the original R-1 and thought the lens there was equally as good. Mine tested gravity and so is not working these days. I just got the GR-D1 and am very happy with it.
My GR-D replace a Bessa L & CV 25/4 combo which was my favorite carry everywhere system for a long time. The older 25/5 is a STELLAR lens and has click stops along the focus range. It allows you to adjust focus without looking. The Bessa L has external LEDs (on the top back) which allow you to adjust exposure without bringing it to eye level. I would strongly recommend this combination, pick up 2 used Ls and the lens (with finder).
I like the control the L gave me more than the R-1. The GR-D is very close to the L with a bit of learning and tweaking on the controls. I do not think any of the film family of these cameras had that. I'm just not a big AF or even AE fan.
Any of the Bessas will give you more control than the GR1. The will all be bigger than the GR-D2. I like the L for this because it was the smallest of all the Bessas. I never needed it to be RF coupled, out of hundreds of shots, two were out of focus.
B2 (;->
My GR-D replace a Bessa L & CV 25/4 combo which was my favorite carry everywhere system for a long time. The older 25/5 is a STELLAR lens and has click stops along the focus range. It allows you to adjust focus without looking. The Bessa L has external LEDs (on the top back) which allow you to adjust exposure without bringing it to eye level. I would strongly recommend this combination, pick up 2 used Ls and the lens (with finder).
I like the control the L gave me more than the R-1. The GR-D is very close to the L with a bit of learning and tweaking on the controls. I do not think any of the film family of these cameras had that. I'm just not a big AF or even AE fan.
Any of the Bessas will give you more control than the GR1. The will all be bigger than the GR-D2. I like the L for this because it was the smallest of all the Bessas. I never needed it to be RF coupled, out of hundreds of shots, two were out of focus.
B2 (;->
lawnpotter
Well-known
Bill, thanks
Bill, thanks
for your reply. f you dont mind, I have 3 questions for you.Do you think that the gr1 film camera would look too much like my grd2 camera picture wise to justify me buying it? I do like the look of film I think it has a different look than digital. Also, you did the exack oposite of me. Wont you miss the film look of the Bessa l? I like the Bessa L but I dont think they make them anymore. Oh finally, is the lens on the grd as good as the 25mm Bessa? Thanks
Bill, thanks
for your reply. f you dont mind, I have 3 questions for you.Do you think that the gr1 film camera would look too much like my grd2 camera picture wise to justify me buying it? I do like the look of film I think it has a different look than digital. Also, you did the exack oposite of me. Wont you miss the film look of the Bessa l? I like the Bessa L but I dont think they make them anymore. Oh finally, is the lens on the grd as good as the 25mm Bessa? Thanks
Bobfrance
Over Exposed
They're both worthy cameras.
They're both worthy cameras.
I don't there is any argument over the quality of the lens in the GR1.
I took one of my favourite images with mine.
Pic here
I think you'll find the GR1 very different image wise. Remember it shoots onto 35mm film as opposed to a small sensor. A major benefit of this is that you have controllable depth of field as opposed to the GRD.
As for the Bessa. In the long term this may be a good move for you. can you be sure you'll always want to shoot 28mm? With the Bessa you have a massive choice of lenses and focal lengths. It's much bigger and has no autofocus though.
Hope this helps.
Bob.
They're both worthy cameras.
I don't there is any argument over the quality of the lens in the GR1.
I took one of my favourite images with mine.
Pic here
I think you'll find the GR1 very different image wise. Remember it shoots onto 35mm film as opposed to a small sensor. A major benefit of this is that you have controllable depth of field as opposed to the GRD.
As for the Bessa. In the long term this may be a good move for you. can you be sure you'll always want to shoot 28mm? With the Bessa you have a massive choice of lenses and focal lengths. It's much bigger and has no autofocus though.
Hope this helps.
Bob.
lawnpotter
Well-known
Thanks Bob
Thanks Bob
Nice picture. If your Ricoh GR1 breaks, can you still get parts and service for it? Thanks
Thanks Bob
Nice picture. If your Ricoh GR1 breaks, can you still get parts and service for it? Thanks
lawnpotter
Well-known
Also Bob
Also Bob
Do you recommend the gr1v over the gr1? I heard the gr1 turns on too easily by accident. Thanks
Also Bob
Do you recommend the gr1v over the gr1? I heard the gr1 turns on too easily by accident. Thanks
Bobfrance
Over Exposed
I have found mine has turned on inside a bag before now, but it's never done it any harm I keep it in it's proper pouch.
Good question about the service. The honest answer is I don't know.
Although I personally have never heard of one breaking (though some must have). Never-the less they are very robust little cameras.
That said £150 ($300) should get you one on the bay.
A voigtlander and lens would probably cost at least twice that, but they can be repaired.
I beleive the main advantage of the GR1v is that you can manually sell the film ISO, whigh is handy if you want to push or pull your film.
i.e. exposing ISO400 film at 1600.
Good question about the service. The honest answer is I don't know.
Although I personally have never heard of one breaking (though some must have). Never-the less they are very robust little cameras.
That said £150 ($300) should get you one on the bay.
A voigtlander and lens would probably cost at least twice that, but they can be repaired.
I beleive the main advantage of the GR1v is that you can manually sell the film ISO, whigh is handy if you want to push or pull your film.
i.e. exposing ISO400 film at 1600.
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lawnpotter
Well-known
Thanks Bob
Thanks Bob
I may get one.
Thanks Bob
I may get one.
MickH
Well-known
I was where you are now about three months ago, lawnpotter. I had used Digital P&S cameras almost exclusively for 15 years (or maybe a bit less!). I was going to buy a Ricoh GR1, GR1s or GR1v, they are all really good. However, it was controllability: Manual focus/exposure and aperture that won me over to the Voigtlander, so instead of spending around $300 I coughed up $1400 ish for an R4a and a couple of lenses. I'm still trying to justify it!:bang:
Good luck.
Good luck.
Bobfrance
Over Exposed
By spooky coincidence a GR1v has just come up in the classifieds.
Perhaps it's a sign!
Perhaps it's a sign!
tom_f77
Tom Fenwick
The GR lens is up there with the best.
You will not be happy with a bessa in your pocket unless you wear cargo pants with braces to hold them up.
I'd get both!
Tom
You will not be happy with a bessa in your pocket unless you wear cargo pants with braces to hold them up.
I'd get both!
Tom
Drambuie
Member
After dropping my battered GR1s onto rocks several times I had it serviced (in the UK) and a cracked viewfinder replaced about 15 months ago. I can't be certain that agents still service it but it seems quite likely. They certainly take more punishment that I expected - probably more than a Bessa. Al
MickH
Well-known
Bobfrance said:By spooky coincidence a GR1v has just come up in the classifieds.
Perhaps it's a sign!
Jiggered if I can find it Bob
Edit: Sorry, not looking hard enough.
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BillBingham2
Registered User
3 answers
3 answers
It’s a very double edged answer. On side you would be in a great position to be able to recreate a picture that did not work great in one medium for the other. You would be able to see what you do not like about digital and then try making adjustments in the camera or in post processing to try to get it closer (if you are interested).
On the other side you have almost the same lens on two almost the same cameras. I’ve never been one for having that duplicative lenses. Flashes, bodies, but not that close in lenses.
The other question is will a GR1 give you the control you want/need for your style? You might look at the GR21 as it has a wider lens and same basic body/configuration.
I’m not selling all my film stuff all. While I might cut back to a single RF system (I’m very lucky to have a system built around an M4-P and a S3-2000) the lenses I am going to use are all Nikkor Primes that swing either film or digital. I know there are some things that a D300 will not do for me as well as film will, but for me it’s a trade off. I look at digital as another emulsion that I have to learn. So not only do I need to learn how to work with and control the camera. I need to learn how the senor reacts and how I can tweak it to get the results I want.
I’ve kicked the tires and a lot of different films in a lot of different formats. I’ve push and pulled Tri-X and Ektachrome, loved Kodachrome and been amazed at some Fuji 1600 color print I’ve used a couple of times. I love 4x5, the quality even without world class glass is amazing.
Will I miss the film look, not sure. I miss shooting Kodachrome 200 and 64 all the time, but I’ve lived. I miss not having my own wet darkroom set up, but I’ve lived. What I all ready miss is the completeness and speed of control. Focus, shutter speed, f-Stop are all so easy to do on the L. Film speed setting is equal, and B&W vs Color the GR-D wins hands down. It’s as easy as Large Format film to switch.
I know the L is not made any more, perhaps the answer is a R4A/M. All Bessa finders are BRIGHT, she’s a bit higher in price than an L, but she is still being made. The L uses the same shutter as the T, R and I think R2 so there is very little to worry about parts or folks to repair it. There’s no viewfinder, hot shoe or anything extra. Just a metter, shutter and a light tight box. You can get good used ones for about $60 to $75 USD here or on EvilBay.
I have not tested the lens on the GR-D as much I have the CV 25. This weekend at my son’s Kondike Derby (Boy Scouts in the cold) the high was 3 degrees F, wind chill minus teens all day. I turned the LCD off and used my metal CV finder, snap mode for focus and spot for metering. She worked like a champ. I was worried that the battery was going to give out, but without the LCD everything seemed fine. The story on the whole GR/R line from Ricoh is that the lenses are world class. Low distortion, sharp, good color, etc. Give me 6 months and ask again, I will have put her through her paces.
I do not think a GR-1 is a bad choice. Bang for the buck you can not top Bessas. Not a bad one in the bunch.
Hope this helps.
B2 (;->
3 answers
lawnpotter said:
It’s a very double edged answer. On side you would be in a great position to be able to recreate a picture that did not work great in one medium for the other. You would be able to see what you do not like about digital and then try making adjustments in the camera or in post processing to try to get it closer (if you are interested).
On the other side you have almost the same lens on two almost the same cameras. I’ve never been one for having that duplicative lenses. Flashes, bodies, but not that close in lenses.
The other question is will a GR1 give you the control you want/need for your style? You might look at the GR21 as it has a wider lens and same basic body/configuration.
I’m not selling all my film stuff all. While I might cut back to a single RF system (I’m very lucky to have a system built around an M4-P and a S3-2000) the lenses I am going to use are all Nikkor Primes that swing either film or digital. I know there are some things that a D300 will not do for me as well as film will, but for me it’s a trade off. I look at digital as another emulsion that I have to learn. So not only do I need to learn how to work with and control the camera. I need to learn how the senor reacts and how I can tweak it to get the results I want.
I’ve kicked the tires and a lot of different films in a lot of different formats. I’ve push and pulled Tri-X and Ektachrome, loved Kodachrome and been amazed at some Fuji 1600 color print I’ve used a couple of times. I love 4x5, the quality even without world class glass is amazing.
Will I miss the film look, not sure. I miss shooting Kodachrome 200 and 64 all the time, but I’ve lived. I miss not having my own wet darkroom set up, but I’ve lived. What I all ready miss is the completeness and speed of control. Focus, shutter speed, f-Stop are all so easy to do on the L. Film speed setting is equal, and B&W vs Color the GR-D wins hands down. It’s as easy as Large Format film to switch.
I know the L is not made any more, perhaps the answer is a R4A/M. All Bessa finders are BRIGHT, she’s a bit higher in price than an L, but she is still being made. The L uses the same shutter as the T, R and I think R2 so there is very little to worry about parts or folks to repair it. There’s no viewfinder, hot shoe or anything extra. Just a metter, shutter and a light tight box. You can get good used ones for about $60 to $75 USD here or on EvilBay.
I have not tested the lens on the GR-D as much I have the CV 25. This weekend at my son’s Kondike Derby (Boy Scouts in the cold) the high was 3 degrees F, wind chill minus teens all day. I turned the LCD off and used my metal CV finder, snap mode for focus and spot for metering. She worked like a champ. I was worried that the battery was going to give out, but without the LCD everything seemed fine. The story on the whole GR/R line from Ricoh is that the lenses are world class. Low distortion, sharp, good color, etc. Give me 6 months and ask again, I will have put her through her paces.
I do not think a GR-1 is a bad choice. Bang for the buck you can not top Bessas. Not a bad one in the bunch.
Hope this helps.
B2 (;->
lawnpotter
Well-known
Thanks for all the replies
Thanks for all the replies
Last night I ordered the gr1 and this morning I cancelled the order. Like you said Bill, the two cameras may be too similar. Today I found a shop near me selling the Bessa L for $159.00 Canadian. I may concider it , if I do I may get either the 25mm or 21mm, I dont yet have a style but I do like taking pictures of friends in front of intersting places. I guess I like enviromental portraits .Bill What lens would you prefer for enviromental portraits and also landscape photography? I think 12mm or 15mm is too much (I could be wrong)and I already have a 28 mm on the GRD2. Bill I like your attitude towards digital, I am still not at peace with the idea of digital but It will definately make learning composition a lot quicker. Anyhow, thanks for all the input.
Thanks for all the replies
Last night I ordered the gr1 and this morning I cancelled the order. Like you said Bill, the two cameras may be too similar. Today I found a shop near me selling the Bessa L for $159.00 Canadian. I may concider it , if I do I may get either the 25mm or 21mm, I dont yet have a style but I do like taking pictures of friends in front of intersting places. I guess I like enviromental portraits .Bill What lens would you prefer for enviromental portraits and also landscape photography? I think 12mm or 15mm is too much (I could be wrong)and I already have a 28 mm on the GRD2. Bill I like your attitude towards digital, I am still not at peace with the idea of digital but It will definately make learning composition a lot quicker. Anyhow, thanks for all the input.
lawnpotter
Well-known
Hey Bill
Hey Bill
I missed one point in your post. Yes having both cameras could be a great way to learn about the differences between film and digital, however I probably wouldnt develop my own film and prints,so the research may not be so thorough. Good thought though. Jeez, I am having buyers remorse and sellers remorse over the same camera in a 24 hour period
Hey Bill
I missed one point in your post. Yes having both cameras could be a great way to learn about the differences between film and digital, however I probably wouldnt develop my own film and prints,so the research may not be so thorough. Good thought though. Jeez, I am having buyers remorse and sellers remorse over the same camera in a 24 hour period