Ricohflex (Super or others) samples, thoughts, advice?

[emilp]

First, since this is my first post, I'd like to say I've read a lot of threads on this forum, and after wading through other forums and websites, it was wonderful to see how much great information and advice is on here, and also how much great photography by members. Also, I've been impressed with the tone of discourse and the helpful attitude members have toward each other. Far better than certain other big forums that shall remain nameless. Also, I'm one of you weirdoes who happens to think photos should be in focus, have good composition, exposure, etc. I think I'll fit right in.

Like most photographers these days, when I take photos for work and paid assignments, digital is inevitable. And there's certainly many good things about it. I won't get into the pros and cons, there are many interesting threads here debating that. Anyway, I got more and more interested in going back to film, and finally I did. Turns out having a quality film camera does make a difference. So these days when I want to relax and just enjoy using a camera I grab my Nikon F4 and put some B&W film in it. It turns out when you know each shutter click costs you money, it focuses the mind and good things happen. Go figure, eh?

Anyway, being reminded cameras didn't use to be flimsy awkward chunks of plastic inevitably resulted in some Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Luckily I've managed to keep it from getting to painful by being interested in cameras that aren't names that are worshiped (F4 and it's well deserved accolades aside...), but that actually did great work without becoming status objects. Ergo my Electro 35 GSN, Lynx 14E, Petri Super 1.9, etc. I'm just a couple of CLA's away from trying the rangefinders. Looking forward to that.

Which brings me to inevitably wanting to try Medium Format. I've been ambivalent about the square ratio, but the concept of trying it (for certain kinds of compositions) has been growing on me. Then of course I had to go and see the "Your favourite photo(s) you took with a TLR" thread here. There are some really amazing photos there.

What I'm getting at is, this is mostly you people's fault.

Still, there's no way I can afford a Rollei. And even if I could, there are other purchases I could make with that much money that would make more sense to me. Needed lenses, a better scanner, half-dozen other cameras, etc.

I've been very impressed with the photos people here have posted from their Mamiya-beasts. I'm inclined toward one of those.

But first, I'd like to see just how much the flipped viewfinder image would bug me, how fiddly the ergonomics are (I suspect neither will bother me that much, since this wouldn't be for quick snapshots), all those things.

Which finally brings me to the Ricohflexes (the Super apparently being the most common). I've seen some beautiful photos here and elsewhere taken with these, and on a unscientific note, I actually like the way they look. The finger-pincher gears amuse me. 🙂

They really do look like one of those under-rated secret performers. Of course one wouldn't expect to outperform a top of the line camera, but that's ok. Again, it's for experimenting. And there's the advantage of their lightness and small size. Not that weight bothers me that much - the F4 is a big hunk of heavy metal.

So I'm curious to see more photos those of you here that have used them have taken with them. And your thoughts about using them.

Thanks for reading through all this to get to the last few relevant sentences... I appreciate it.

On a final note, prices have been rapidly rising recently on a lot of film cameras I've been interested in. It burns, but on the upside, it must be a good sign for the future sales and therefore continued availability of film, right? Fingers crossed...

 

[mugent]

Mamiya TLRs are massive, heavy beasts, bear that in mind. Have you considered a YashicaMat, cheap ish and very good.

 

[emilp]

They do seem to be good cameras. The Mat prices are going up and the Mamiya are going down, or at least keeping steady, so that's a bonus point for the Mamiyas. What I do like about the Mamiyabeasts are the interchangeable lenses and the close focusing bellows. I know a few TLR's have attachments for close focusing (I've seen some nice shots done with the Flexaret version for example), but they seem pretty rare and tricky to get.

 

[Noll]

Hi Emil, Just like you lately I've been lusting after the Ricohflex, its images have a great look. Two weeks ago I put a bit in, and won, a Super Ricohflex for a mere $20. I didn't expect much for the money, but was disgusted with what arrived. Was described as "Used but functions as intended" but it had a cracked viewing screen, broken shutter, and super stiff focusing gears. Needless to say I returned it.

Bottom line, although they may sell for cheap, try your best to find one that has been serviced at some point in the last decade and beware of cheap junkers like the one I was suckered into! Good luck and let us know what turns up.

 

[Noll]

I should mention that if you find a Diacord L (uncoupled meter) or G (unmetered), you won't be disappointed. They often go for less than $100 and have lenses that are second to none among the mid-level TLR's, and a much nicer build quality compared to the ricohflex.

 

[xia_ke]

Hi Emil, I went through this hunt myself several years ago and here's my 2 cents based upon my experiences. While I have seen some great work come from Ricohflexes, the 2 Super Ricohflexes I had I wasn't impressed with. They had poor build quality and the lenses couldn't come close to the Xenars or Tessars I was shooting with at the time. I have certainly seen some sharp images come from them so maybe it was a quality control issue during production? I will second mugent's suggestion of looking at the Yashicamats. Other options you might want to consider in that same price range ($150 - $250 for good condition, fully working sample) would be a Zeiss Ikoflex, a Minolta Autocord, or a Rolleicord. The question really comes down to do you want to spend a bit more for a better camera or would you rather have or need the "half-dozen other cameras."

 

[emilp]

Noll, thanks - I have thought about the Diacord. It might be a good way to go. Doesn't hurt to get a mid-level one. Even if it doesn't have entertaining finger-pinching gears. 🙂

xia_ke, I knew the "half-dozen other" crack would come back do deservedly bite me. I do indeed prefer one good one. But like I said, this would be just for trying it out, and should I decide it went well, then I'd get a quality TLR.

Mis-aligned focus seems to be an issue that often comes up - perhaps that's what happened with yours?

Autocords seem to be in high demand, but I have seen the occasional affordable Rolleicord. I haven't really seriously thought about an Ikoflex because I thought they were rarer than they seem to be. What are the upsides/downsides on those?

 

[Dan Daniel]

Find any of the various names mentioned in good condition, and you'll learn what you need to know- if the TLR waist level finder way of shooting works for you, if medium format film works for you, and if the square works for you. Then you can decide if dropping more money on a better camera makes sense.

Condition is key. A Cirroflex in clean and aligned shape is better than a trashed Rolleiflex. Most of these camera will be 40-70 years old.

The good thing I've notice with Yashica-Mats is that they are probably the easiest TLR to resell. For some reason they are very 'hip.' I've seen people look at a Rolleiflex and a Yashica-D at the same time and basically turn their nose up at their Rollei while ooh-ing and aah-ing over the Yashica.

But more than anything, condition, condition, condition. Buying through a place like here or APUG's classifieds seems pretty safe- real people, real reputations, etc. Heck, I've even got one ofr sale locally-
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/pho/2856574006.html

 

[xia_ke]

Sorry Emil, that was not meant to be a bite. The options in photography are as infinite as the amount of personalities involved in the hobby. Some people get inspired by constantly mixing things up with new cameras while others prefer to stick with only one camera and one focal length. To each their own, which is half the fun! 🙂

Having been through a lot of these old cameras, I have to say Dan makes the most important point of all. The most important thing is condition! Once your budget is set, find the example in the best possible operating condition and with the cleanest glass within your price range.

 

[charjohncarter]

I have two Diacord G(s). They are fine: good lens, easy to use, funky focusing but fine once you are use to it (in fact it offers both left and right handed focusing), the focusing screen is a weak point (that my also be because of the 3.5 viewing lens), build quality is average. It has two ways to sync; hot shoe and PC port. I use one for IR and the filter I use is a Hoya R72 and it is 49mm. Because of the Bayonet I filter on the camera it is easy to find an adapter.

Shutter is B, 1 second though 1/400. The taking lens is f 3.5. There is no double exposure protection.

Here are two recent:

that was IR and then Efke 25:

 

[emilp]

Thanks Dan. I should see whats in the classifieds lately. And you're right about the condition - I usually keep the cost of a CLA in mind when deciding if something is a good deal.

xia_ke, no worries, it made me laugh. Like i said, I was asking for it.

John, thanks for posting those. They're lovely shots. I don't see any lens faults in them. Also, good to know about the focusing - I've noted that a common complaint with TLRs (especially Rolleis) is the settings/winder being on one side and focus on the other. While this is going on presumably one holds it with a third hand... So that's good news.

Are close-up attachments available? Have you tried using them?

Also, this info is probably readily available but it's always more interesting to hear it from a user - how do you process the IR film? If at a lab, is it much more expensive than other processes?

 

[charjohncarter]

John,

Are close-up attachments available? Have you tried using them?

Also, this info is probably readily available but it's always more interesting to hear it from a user - how do you process the IR film? If at a lab, is it much more expensive than other processes?

Yes, I have a cheap close up system, I decided to not pay a lot because I knew I wouldn't use it that much. But like the adapter it is bayonet I for both parts of the adapter.

I process my Efke IR 820 with HC-110h, but any developer would work. With that film correct exposure is most important. Everyone said ISO (ISO,EI) was 3, but in my experience it is a stop and a half down from that. But that is my preference.

Close up len:

and this is my flickr diacord photos:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1027510@N25/pool/carter3john/page2/

By the way, I put the wrong lens on the taking lens when I first got them so PM me it you buy some.

 

[mooge]

Also, good to know about the focusing - I've noted that a common complaint with TLRs (especially Rolleis) is the settings/winder being on one side and focus on the other. While this is going on presumably one holds it with a third hand...

with regard to the Rolleiflex (and others like the Yashica-mat, presumably) it's actually no problem- right hand cradles the camera; index finger on the shutter release, and the left hand operates the focusing knob.

you do have to shift hand positions when you wind the film (LH holds camera, RH operates crank...) but I don't think it's a huge deal.

 

[Todd.Hanz]

I have a ricohflex diacord that I haven't shot in years, seemed like a pretty good performer though...

You're right about the square, some people get along fine, others just despise it!

Todd

 

[charjohncarter]

with regard to the Rolleiflex (and others like the Yashica-mat, presumably) it's actually no problem- right hand cradles the camera; index finger on the shutter release, and the left hand operates the focusing knob.

you do have to shift hand positions when you wind the film (LH holds camera, RH operates crank...) but I don't think it's a huge deal.

Well, ergonomics isn't one of the TLR's strong points. But I do have to say I like left hand focus with right shutter release on the DiacordG over my Rolleiflex. Small point as you say in the big picutre of TLRs.

Mooge, here is one of my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SID8Vmi01Q

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

...

Still, there's no way I can afford a Rollei.....

Welcome.
A Rolleicord IV or V would suit you well. Affordable, great lens, and focus and wind knobs are both on the right. Granted, they do live in the shadow of their exulted Rolleiflex brethren, but make no mistake, they're a well made, extremely competent camera, capable of truly superb image quality.
Regards,
Brett

 

[mooge]

Mooge, here is one of my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SID8Vmi01Q

🙂

here's a recent favourite of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydCuV9-sb9k



oh yeah, about Rolleis, they're not all super expensive. you can get a Rolleiflex Automat 'X' or 'MX' under 200 bucks if you look around. even less for the pre-war automats, but they'll have uncoated lenses (which is kinda cool but sorta not, I guess).

 

[KoNickon]

A close competitor to the Diacord G in terms of controls and features is the Yashica D. I'm thinking specifically of the later version that has the 4 element Yashinon lens. It also has a 2.8 viewing lens -- brighter than the Diacord's. Like the Diacord, it has separate shutter cocking and no double exposure prevention, but is a fine picture taker.

 

[maddoc]

I have a Ricohflex VII, it has shutter-speeds from B, 1S to 1/500s and a 75/3.5 taking lens. The screen is quite dim and one can only see the center-part really clear but since the triplet (4 elements / 3 groups ?) also is not the king of "corner-to-corner" sharpness it doesn`t bother me much ...

I bought the camera for about US$100 about 4 years ago and had it serviced 3 years ago (sticky shutter and focus). Works very well now and I prefer it over my Rolleiflex when weight is an issue.

 

[charjohncarter]

🙂

here's a recent favourite of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydCuV9-sb9k



oh yeah, about Rolleis, they're not all super expensive. you can get a Rolleiflex Automat 'X' or 'MX' under 200 bucks if you look around. even less for the pre-war automats, but they'll have uncoated lenses (which is kinda cool but sorta not, I guess).

Selmer, nothing sounds like a real one. I'm not sure any camera manufacturers have ever produced a final, end, hard copy photo product that is so much different from their competitors.