Rodinal and EI on Tri-X 400

[DRabbit]

So I've ordered Rodinal and am going to give it a try next time I develop a roll. I've just loaded up a roll of Arista Premium 400 (like Tri-X 400) in my camera today and want to know how to set the EI...

When developing in Diafine, it can vary (though the sweet spot seems to be about 1250). One of the reasons I want to use Rodinal is that the film can be closer to what it's actually rated for.

So... Should I set it to 400? I've read that 200-250 can work well too... what's been your experience?

Also, what method and dilution do you use for developing? 1:50 with gentle agitation? About 12-14 minutes? Is that right?

This relative film-newbie would love to hear what you're doing... feel free to post examples too!

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I do it for 11 minutes at 1+50, 68 degrees. EI 320. I do not do the gentle agitation though, I have never been successful at developing any film in any developer, ever, with gentle agitation. I ALWAYS have severely uneven development when I do. I agitate constantly for the first 30 seconds then 2 inversions every 30 seconds. Not gentle.

 

[sper]

for 35mm I've always had success rating it at 400 and developing it for 15 minutes at 68˚F. 3 inversions every minute.

It's not always suited to Tri-X though. You're going to actually lose the appearance of detail due to the overall extreme sharpness on the grain. However in an 11x14 it just looks like a really sharp, grainy image. I think it looks great.

All the 35mm stuff in my 'new york studies' gallery was developed that way, on my website.

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

I find dilution to help determine the EI for Rodinal. When I use 1+100 I expose for half the box speed. For 1+50 (or lower) I shoot box speed.

 

[Bob Michaels]

Everyone has their own choices that work for them. Nothing wrong with any of them.

My personal choice is to expose around e.i. around 250 and use 1:50 for around ten minutes. That gives a slightly flat file which is ideal for a hybrid (scanning & adjustment in an image editor) workflow. I like being able to place the contrast in the shadows or in the midtones rather than having it already there.

While there is an obvious relationship between e.i. and development time, I have concluded that iso 400 films lose almost a stop in Rodinal and the development times to get it back to 400 makes it look a bit "pushed" to my eye. So I just prefer to shoot at a lower e.i. than 400. BTW, my experience shows that speed loss in not present in slower films.

Like Chris, I am not gentle with the agitation. I agitate for the first 30 seconds and then two active inversions per minute after that.

 

[Chuck Albertson]

What Bob said.

 

[DRabbit]

Thanks guys...

What you say is interesting Bob... I've been using Diafine and it gives somewhat a flatish file which I felt personally was good for my hybrid workflow. Of course, I'm still learning, so every bit of info helps!

 

[robinsonphotography]

I actually prefer to use arista premium at about 800 with rodinal--used at 1+50 and around 30 minutes at 68 degrees. Agitation for first 30 seconds, then once every 5 minutes. That is in large part by virtue of the lighting situations I usually shoot film in (dark), but it works well for me.

 

[Bingley]

I agree w/ Bob, too. Tri-X @ 400 in Rodinal 1:50 is usually a little too grainy for my taste, but shot at 200 or 250 it's very nice. I agitate for first 30 seconds, and then 2-3 inversions every other minute, for 10 minutes. When shooting Tri-X (or Arista premium) @ 400, I prefer HC 110 dil. e -- a very pleasing (to my eye) balance of tones and contrast, and not too grainy.

 

[mfogiel]

An important factor in Rodinal development, is the actual amount of developer per single film. I believe 3ml is the minimum and 4ml is the maximum for longer development times, this way you do not risk to overdevelop the highlights.
This has been shot at EI 400, 15ml Rodinal in a 900ml tank for 4 films. 8 inversions in the first 30 secs, then 2 inversions at the 3,6 and 9 min. mark, total time 12 min at 20 deg C. The negs come out thin, but with sufficient shadow detail, and are easy to scan.

 

[Bingley]

That is a stunning result w/ Rodinal and Tri-X @ 400, Marek. The OP may want to look at your flickr for other samples of excellent work w/ this film/developer combination. If I could get that kind of sharpness and tonality from Rodinal and Tri-X I wouldn't use anything else...

 

[Turtle]

Personally i find the tonality of Rodinal and TriX pretty awful most of the time but it can work. I personally use 1+50, agitate once per minute after 15s agitation initially and do not have my dev time handy. I do however rate at 250 in brighter contrasty light and 400 might just work in very flat light but only (IMO) when using reduced agitation and longer times. IMHO Chris'phto shows very hot highlights which are characteristic of this developer when agitation is not kept right down. My personal view is that while rodinal is strong at the top and bottom of the scales the mid tones are nowhere near as pleasing as with the old standards, like D76, Xtol etc.

 

[Jaans]

My proceedure for Rodinal and TRI-X is this, 1:50:

EI: 200-250 I agitate for the first 30 seconds. Then do one gentle agitation at the start of each minute. I develop for a time of 9:30-10:00 minutes. I will use this method when there is contrasty lighting conditions with shadows.

Alternatively, if the lighting is REALLY strong, then I will switch to 1:100 and develop for 17 minutes. The literature suggests 20 minutes for EI:400, so I take off three minutes and that works. Keeps the highlights under control.

My first 30 second agitation is quite strong and I twist and turn the tank in my hand (not just tip) to get the developer working. Then 3 hard thumps.

After that the agitation is gentle and I haven't experienced uneven development yet. I believe that it doesn't need hard agitation to prevent uneven development, instead the tank should be turned and twisted to make sure that the developer is hitting all of the film.

EI: 400 I will use this in overcast flat lighting when there are no bright highlights to speak of. I have gone as much as 13 minutes for really overcast conditions with two agitations per minute instead of the one.

Sometimes if I am feeling adventurous I will change the dilution to 1:25 and process for 7-8:30.

I always keep my temperature down as the grain looks better and it is easier to control the process with extended time to get optimum shadow detail. Because it is hot where I am, I pre wash, then put the developer in at 17C-18C. By the end of the process it is just over 20C. I find that this works well. Also, wasn't there a thread recently that someone had done a study (German company perhaps) which suggested that a lower temperature will get you true film speed?

I am using Rodinal now, afer using D76 and HC110 for a while. I find that TRI-X looks better in D76/HC110, but it just doesn't have that grain I yearn for. So, I switched to Rodinal. I think the new formula TRI-X is too smooth in D76 when processed at standard EI of 400.

If you want larger grain, then HP5 is your best bet. It seems to have retained that classic emulsion more than the newer revamped TRI-X.

So, in conclusion I think using Rodinal is all about learning to use those three dilutions, 1:25, 1:50, 1:100 for your different lighting conditions.

Good luck.

 

[Trius]

@ EI 250, 1:100, 19min, 30sec agitation then stand. 35mm crop.

Same, but with some funky post-processing in GIMP

 

[DRabbit]

Trius... those are really beautiful!
So other than the first agistation, none at all for 19 minutes?

 

[Trius]

Amy: Correct ... no agitation after the first 30 seconds or so.

Years ago, when I first used Rodinal, I used the standard agitation schemes, i.e. 5 seconds every 30 seconds.

After many years of no photography, I started using a reduced agitation scheme as a result of reading Greg Mironchuck's web pages on HC-110, wherein he suggested three gentle inversions every 3 minutes. That seemed to improve my Rodinal work. But since Rodinal 1:100 is such a dilute solution, and people were getting interesting results with 1:150 or 1:200 stand, I thought, "Huh ... I wonder..." So I just cut out agitation after 30 seconds, and it works. Someone here says they get uneven development with reduced agitation, but I've never experienced it. I don't pre-soak, either.

Thanks for the compliment.

Earl
or
PS: TMY-2 is even "nicer" in Rodinal, IMO ... you should try that, too. While looking for TX in Rodinal on my flickr stream, I came across some TX in XTol that, I will admit, is really, really nice. Such decisions ...

 

[bwcolor]

Rodinal/Xtol

Rodinal/Xtol

I recently started to play around with Xtol/Rodinal & Tri-X @ ISO 400. I have only run one roll, but I suspect that there might be some advantage to this combination. Others have suggested other Rodinal cocktails. Specifics at to dilutions & times are in a three part video/audio series found at:

http://figitalrevolution.com/?s=stand+development

 

[degruyl]

Amy: Correct ... no agitation after the first 30 seconds or so.

Years ago, when I first used Rodinal, I used the standard agitation schemes, i.e. 5 seconds every 30 seconds.

After many years of no photography, I started using a reduced agitation scheme as a result of reading Greg Mironchuck's web pages on HC-110, wherein he suggested three gentle inversions every 3 minutes. That seemed to improve my Rodinal work. But since Rodinal 1:100 is such a dilute solution, and people were getting interesting results with 1:150 or 1:200 stand, I thought, "Huh ... I wonder..." So I just cut out agitation after 30 seconds, and it works. Someone here says they get uneven development with reduced agitation, but I've never experienced it. I don't pre-soak, either.

Thanks for the compliment.

Earl
or
PS: TMY-2 is even "nicer" in Rodinal, IMO ... you should try that, too. While looking for TX in Rodinal on my flickr stream, I came across some TX in XTol that, I will admit, is really, really nice. Such decisions ...

I also got uneven results with the one attempt at stand developing I tried. I plan to try it again, as other than slight unevenness in the sky (and some apparent bubbles) I had quite remarkable images. In other words: where it worked as expected, it worked very very well. Where it did not, it looked screwed up. They were also very dense, but that could be either time or concentration.

As it is, I had to resort to digital post for those negatives.

Note, my problems were on one roll of two (both 120) in a single 1 liter tank. I understand that stand developing works better when there is space above and below the roll. I don't have answers, though.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I just developed a new roll of Tri-X in Rodinal. The example I showed before is several yrs old and is the first time I'd ever used Rodinal on Tri-X. I checked my notes which said that I had actually used 12 minutes for the old example (I said 11 minutes in my early post because my list of dev. times says to use 11...my old notes explain...12 seemed too long, try 11 next time! lol I Ended up not trying again till now, 2 yrs later!)

So, here's a couple done at 11 minutes, I think they look better:

 

[arseniii]

That would be a gorgeous combination Tri-x + rodinal. I do 1+50 Rodinal 13min at 21deg. C. Here is what I get

Both ZM Biogon 25mm