Rodinal clone and current HC-110 shelf-life?

Freakscene said:
Correct, Sino produced the new version which is water-based not glycol based. The old version is not produced by anyone anymore.

Marty
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I have some bottles of HC110 made by SINO and TETENAL
Just looked through to confirm and found out that SINO version is EXACTLY THE SAME as the TETENAL one, which is glycol base.
I snap the ingrdients for proof,
check it out. The first photo is snap of TETENAL bottle to compare. 1712758618427.png

1712758495744.png

1712758558185.png
 
kiemchacsu said:
I have some bottles of HC110 made by SINO and TETENAL
Just looked through to confirm and found out that SINO version is EXACTLY THE SAME as the TETENAL one, which is glycol base.
I snap the ingrdients for proof,
check it out. The first photo is snap of TETENAL bottle to compare. View attachment 4835985

View attachment 4835983

View attachment 4835984
Click to expand...
This is a list of contents, not a formula. They are not the same. The proportions of the organic alkalis are different and the principal solvent in the Sino version is water which contains sulfite, not glycol containing liquid sulfite as an organic complex. Measure the viscosity, or the sodium content. The proportions of catechol (1,2 benzene diol) and hydroquinone (1,4 benzene diol) also differ.

The MDS for each product demonstrates much of this:

Detailed and discussed here:

The results are the same but the formulas are different.

Analysed here:

Marty
 
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Freakscene said:
This is a list of contents, not a formula. They are not the same. The proportions of the organic alkalis are different and the principal solvent in the Sino version is water which contains sulfite, not glycol containing liquid sulfite as an organic complex. Measure the viscosity, or the sodium content. The proportions of catechol (1,2 benzene diol) and hydroquinone (1,4 benzene diol) also differ.

The MDS for each product demonstrates much of this:

Detailed and discussed here:

The results are the same but the formulas are different.

Analysed here:

Marty
Click to expand...

I totally got your point here that the OLD and NEW formulars are different.
But the key point here is: we are not sure whether SINO was making the OLD for NEW formula.
Looking at the viscosity I found the SINO one and TETENAL one are no different and it's quite thick.
That's why i SUSPECTED that it's the old version.
A guy here also share the same thought with me.
www.photrio.com

Kodak yellow HC-110 in round bottle - 2022 - Sino Promise, Made in China

{Moderator's Note: for discussion about the previous, 2019 version of HC-110, and its differences from what preceded it, you may wish to revue this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-developer-not-the-same.176138/} Hello guys. I just bought a bottle of Kodak HC-110 in...
www.photrio.com www.photrio.com
 
kiemchacsu said:
I totally got your point here that the OLD and NEW formulars are different.
But the key point here is: we are not sure whether SINO was making the OLD for NEW formula.
Looking at the viscosity I found the SINO one and TETENAL one are no different and it's quite thick.
That's why i SUSPECTED that it's the old version.
A guy here also share the same thought with me.
www.photrio.com

Kodak yellow HC-110 in round bottle - 2022 - Sino Promise, Made in China

{Moderator's Note: for discussion about the previous, 2019 version of HC-110, and its differences from what preceded it, you may wish to revue this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-developer-not-the-same.176138/} Hello guys. I just bought a bottle of Kodak HC-110 in...
www.photrio.com www.photrio.com
Click to expand...
The Sino Promise bottle I had was definitely the new formulation with much lesser viscosity. Sino might have packaged or labelled the end of the Tetenal manufacturing run, but I doubt they had the technology to manufacture the old formula. If you really want to know, check the water content of the developer you have using copper (II) sulfate or cobalt chloride.

Marty
 
Some further research uncovered some interesting evidence:

IMG_5894.jpeg

This is a “Made in Germany for SinoPromise” bottle of HC-110. It is the old formula (and I see it being sold as such in several places). It is possible that there are other variants, but the product I looked at in the round SinoPromise bottle with Made in China on it was the new formula, and I really doubt that SinoPromise made any of the old formula, but who knows how what was packed and labelled?

As I said, test for water, or measure the viscosity against a known standard.
 
Freakscene said:
Some further research uncovered some interesting evidence:

View attachment 4836051

This is a “Made in Germany for SinoPromise” bottle of HC-110. It is the old formula (and I see it being sold as such in several places). It is possible that there are other variants, but the product I looked at in the round SinoPromise bottle with Made in China on it was the new formula, and I really doubt that SinoPromise made any of the old formula, but who knows how what was packed and labelled?

As I said, test for water, or measure the viscosity against a known standard.
Click to expand...
My German made HC-110 for SINO is also the last batch of the old formular in old shape bottle that I have (EXP 2023),
Current SINO made in China has expire date of 2025. Still no way to test for water as I dont have any special tool for that.
Just pure my judgement from looking of the color and the viscosity.
 
John Bragg said:
I am currently using Ilfotec HC (1 litre bottle decanted into 100ml medicine bottles) and it is 3 years old with no sign of deterioration. I use Calpol childrens paracetamol bottles and they come with an oral medicine syringe and fitted stopper.


Untitled_254019GB by E.J. Bragg, on Flickr
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how long does your stock mixture last though? you know, the "mix x amount of concentrate with y amount of water. then use the below chart to make the working solution"
 
PetPhoto said:
how long does your stock mixture last though? you know, the "mix x amount of concentrate with y amount of water. then use the below chart to make the working solution"
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Most users these days omit making a stock solution and measure syrupy developers using a syringe and dilute directly from syrup. That way the longevity of the stock doesn’t matter.
 
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Freakscene said:
Most users these days omit making a stock solution and measure syrupy developers using a syringe and dilute directly from syrup. That way the longevity of the stock doesn’t matter.
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what, and not follow the ilford directions... thats heresy i say, heresy. Ill bring the torches. someone else needs to bring the pitchforks
 
Freakscene said:
You are following Ilford’s directions, just skipping the less stable stock solution.
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all of ilford directions for making that final working solution come FROM diluting the stock solution. I know its popular for HC-110 users to do straight from syrup but mathematically it only works for specific dilutions.

I can get over developed negs on xp2 super using 50ml of stock to my paterson tank... id hate to see what comes from using 50ml of straight up syrup in a paterson tank.
 
I have checked the old type Kodak HC-110 and the HC-110 made in Germany for Sino, both in the same type bottles but there is a difference in viscocity. In general the same chemicals are used but somehow they are different. BTW Tetenal was already (again) in bankruptcy last year.
 
Currently on Taobao, there is HC-110 Clone which is "KOIMAGE HC-110" Has anyone tried this one? The bottle shape is similar to the SINO rounded one.
 
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