Rodinal Revisited...

[Freakscene]

NOT yet....
but by next week will have the funds & Time to Look
Thinking of the lightweight FE / coupled with the Zeiss 85 1.4
🙂

Helen,

The Nikon AiS is better than the Zeiss apart from in flare resistance and availability of a chip of the shelf in the Zeiss ZF.2 lens. Both lenses will flare occasionally, but the Nikkor does flare a bit more. Of particular note to me was that the Nikkor 85/1.4 AiS focuses to 85 cm close focus while the Zeiss only focuses to 1 m. This made a huge difference to me in portraits.

Marty

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

Its not Rodinal nor the "stand development" but the film. If you developed the negatives in Rodinal @ 18C using rotation (constant agitation) I doubt that they'd have been any worse. Stand development does not decrease grain. It increases edge effects that under some circumstances can via increased acutance provide a bit of a boost in perceived sharpness--- often, however, at the cost of irregular development. Better and more reliable, I think, than Rodinal (and I do like Rodinal) sans agitation would be following old aged technique: over-expose and under-develop (to tame the contrast). Suitable softer-developers are Neofin-Blau or even, for a bit of serendipity, Caffeinol-C. To stick with Rodinal instead of stand development I'd suggest 1+50, adding a pinch of Borax and using good old Agfa inversion (60 sec. continuous followed by once every 30 seconds).
If you are "into" slow films and want highest sharpness than instead of Ekfe-25 I'd suggest microfilm such as Agfa Copex Rapid AHU or Kodak Imagelink. These are very high contrast films so they need a lot of taming.

 

[oftheherd]

I have some Efke and Rodinal. I must try that and maybe even the Caffeinol. Is Neofin-Blau still available. I seem to remember I once read a book that gave use examples, maybe even the chemicals used to make it. There was a time when I thought it fun to buy chemicals and mix my own developers.

 

[B.J.Scharp]

As you also know I equate time spent scanning and post-processing only slightly less painful than a root canal.

Are we related? 🙄

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

I have some Efke and Rodinal. I must try that and maybe even the Caffeinol. Is Neofin-Blau still available.

I think so... Here it is, for example, from a German mailorder hose: phototec

I seem to remember I once read a book that gave use examples, maybe even the chemicals used to make it.

That was surely "Meine Dunklekammer Praxis" from Willi Beutler. Neofin-Blau is a wee bit different from the developers whose recipes are given in the book using combinations of A, B, C and D solutions but lacking Neofin-Blau one can use the 20 parts Water + 2 Parts A + 1 Part C where

A is: 2g Calgon (not needed if you use "distilled" water), 10g Metol, 50g Sodium Sulfit sicc. (andhydrous) into 1 liter of Water (heated to 40c)

C is: 5g Calgon (again not needed if you used "distilled" water), 100g Soda sicc. (waterfree or anhydrous sodium carbonate called also "soda ash") into water.

Both these solution keep relatively well but once you mix the developer it should be used.

 

[P. Lynn Miller]

Edward,

Thanks for all the advice, but not sure that you understand the reason I used the film I used and developed the film the way I did.

I am looking to produce very edgy negatives, inky black shadows and barely controlled highlights. In fact, I am shooting some Efke 25 tomorrow where I do not want any shadow detail but want to retain most of the highlights. While all this happening, I am hoping to minimize the grain, but not eliminate it. I am using Efke 25, not for sharpness, but for the tonal quality. Even if I am seriously compressing the tonal range.

I have used Neofin-Blau and did not like the results, that is personal. Rodinal can be a very versatile developer. In my experience with Rodinal, you control the grain by agitation, contrast by dilution, and, of course, you can over-develop or under-develop as well. I have used Rodinal as stand-developer with great and consistent success, easily pushing Tri-X to speeds of 12,800 and 25,600. You can see some examples on my Flickrstream.

I am revisiting my method of using Rodinal produce a completely different negative then I typically produce when stand-developing with Rodinal. And I am very happy with the resulting negatives so far.

Thanks for your contribution to this discussion!

 

[B.J.Scharp]

Rodinal can be a very versatile developer. In my experience with Rodinal, you control the grain by agitation, contrast by dilution, and, of course, you can over-develop or under-develop as well.

More serious this time: I have so far only used rodinal at 1:50 dilutions. would 1:25 give me more or less contrast?

And my experiences with over-developing underexposed Neopan in Rodinal haven't given me very satisfying results, but maybe I haven't pushed the processing times enough.

 

[P. Lynn Miller]

More serious this time: I have so far only used rodinal at 1:50 dilutions. would 1:25 give me more or less contrast

In my experience, decreasing dilution will increase contrast. When I push film in Rodinal, my goal is a very flat negative. I increase contrast in printing or post-processing.

I am about to drop some Efke 25 which I have pushed 4-stops or rated at ASA 400, into a tank of 1:25 Rodinal for 12 minutes. Very curious to see what comes out!

 

[B.J.Scharp]

In my experience, decreasing dilution will increase contrast. When I push film in Rodinal, my goal is a very flat negative. I increase contrast in printing or post-processing.

I am about to drop some Efke 25 which I have pushed 4-stops or rated at ASA 400, into a tank of 1:25 Rodinal for 12 minutes. Very curious to see what comes out!

Am I correct in reading those two as opposites? (you normally want a flat negative, but are now experimenting with lower dilutions to get a high-contrast negative?)

Sorry for the questions, haven't been developing for long 🙄

 

[Vincent.G]

Miller, great work with Rodinal and Efke 25 you have there. I am very impressed with the results. I have been using TMAX developer for Tri-X and Tmax 400 for quite some time and have looking around for another developer to use to get another "look". Looks like your work is enticing me to try out Rodinal on Tri-X and Tmax 400. Any experience on this films with Rodinal and stand development?

 

[Pico]

There goes the myth that Rodinal always produces grainy pictures.
That Efke 25 is smooth.

How can one tell with such a small low resolution image on a computer screen?

 

[P. Lynn Miller]

I am about to drop some Efke 25 which I have pushed 4-stops or rated at ASA 400, into a tank of 1:25 Rodinal for 12 minutes. Very curious to see what comes out!

Am I correct in reading those two as opposites? (you normally want a flat negative, but are now experimenting with lower dilutions to get a high-contrast negative?):

Yes... I am not practicing what I preach! Let me explain...

Under normal circumstances I am pushing an already high-speed film, usually Tri-X or Efke KB400, which has plenty of obvious grain and contrast. I am known to push Tri-X to 25,600, which takes about 3 hours in Rodinal 1:100 or something like that, only agitating every 30 minutes. I have posted plenty of information on a thread here at RFF called - Rodinal 1:100 - with examples published in my Flickrstream - Stand Development - have a look at both of those resources. This high dilution method of stand development is done to reduce contrast and keep the grain of a high speed emulsion under control.

What I trying to do now is to produce a negative with deep, inky blacks with little or no shadow detail while pushing the highlights as near to blowout as possible without actually doing it, all the while with minimal grain and good tonal range, albit very compressed. Plus I have 200ft of recently expired Efke KB25 in the freezer, so why not do something crazy.

Oh... by the way... the negatives came out of the tank with images on them.

 

[shadowfox]

How can one tell with such a small low resolution image on a computer screen?

Simple, I've seen enough of other pictures in similar size and resolution. Compared to those, what I saw in this thread has less pronounced grain. Knowing the film used, I can see why.

 

[B.J.Scharp]

Ok, thank you for all the information.

 

[Fawley]

Lynn,
Very interesting what you are doing here. When I first looked at this thread I had been thinking along the lines of what Edward said. The brightness range of the subjects on the initial shots looked pretty big, but you were shooting Efke 25. They looked like scenes that I would have chosen Delta 400, and yet I liked the images you were getting a lot. I use Pan F quite a bit but under completely different conditions; outdoor scenes with flat lighting which we get a lot of in the Pacific Northwest. It is interesting to see what you can get out of a slow speed film like this.

 

[alistair.o]

Thanks, Helen! Always value your judgement on my photographs.

Yes, all the scans posted so far have been exposed with the Nokton 50mm f1.1... the verdict is still out on the lens. I have a few more scans that I will be posting to this thread, so come by occasionally.



Keith,

I do like the Efke emulsions, very rich tones with deep blacks while still retaining good shadow detail and highlights are well controlled. The negatives are a bit fragile when wet, so care has to be taken not to scratch or mark the emulsion, I do not recommend using a squeegee as it can simply strip the emulsion right off the base.

Another scan...

Leica M5 | Voigtländer Nokton 50mm f1.1 | Efke KB25 | Rodinal 1:50 | 8:40 minutes | 19ºC

You can see a bit of vignetting happening here with the Nokton.

I love this picture. It is to me a delight and if I can get to here I will be happy (I'm trying - I'm learning)

Thank you for this thread.

Alistair

 

[P. Lynn Miller]

Thanks, Alistair!

Apologies to the folks waiting for the Efke KB 100 scans... but I have more exciting stuff just for the moment.

Now presenting Efke KB25 pushed 4 stops or rated for ASA 400 which I then developed in Rodinal 1:25 with plenty of agitation...

Leica M5 | Voigtländer Nokton 50mm f1.1 | Efke KB25 @ 400 | Rodinal 1:25 | 13 minutes | 19ºC

The negatives are quite amazing, bitingly sharp, a truck-load of contrast, blackest blacks, with no grain to speak of, and plenty of high-light detail.

 

[lbenac]

Thanks, Alistair!

Now presenting Efke KB25 pushed 4 stops or rated for ASA 400 which I then developed in Rodinal 1:25 with plenty of agitation...
Leica M5 | Voigtländer Nokton 50mm f1.1 | Efke KB25 @ 400 | Rodinal 1:25 | 13 minutes | 19ºC
The negatives are quite amazing, bitingly sharp, a truck-load or contrast, blackest blacks, with no grain to speak of, and plenty of high-light detail.

This is very interesting. While I am new to this forum I have been doing my development of 135 and 120 in Xtol/Rodinal/Borax stand. So I regularly push film by one stop. I have had very good result with Efke 25 in 120. This kind of development open new avenues that I did not thing of.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,

Luc

 

[Steve Karr]

Hey P. Lynn,
I love the look of the KB25 in Rodi... how did you rate the "non 400 push" film? Just Box speed? Like KB 25 at 25 asa?

Thanks for the inspiration.

Steve

 

[helen.HH]

Thanks, Alistair!

Apologies to the folks waiting for the Efke KB 100 scans... but I have more exciting stuff just for the moment.

Now presenting Efke KB25 pushed 4 stops or rated for ASA 400 which I then developed in Rodinal 1:25 with plenty of agitation...

Leica M5 | Voigtländer Nokton 50mm f1.1 | Efke KB25 @ 400 | Rodinal 1:25 | 13 minutes | 19ºC

The negatives are quite amazing, bitingly sharp, a truck-load of contrast, blackest blacks, with no grain to speak of, and plenty of high-light detail.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A 'LOOK" I'm After !!!!!!!!!!
Strikingly Beauriful.....