Rodinal stand development

[gho]

Ok, after having seen Charjohncarters shot with the HC 110 1:125 and TriX I might try that!

Yes, definitely looks more reasonable! 🙂 However, it seems to be possible to get interesting results given certain circumstances. The highlights are a bit on the edge in this one also. I have to think a bit more about it.

 

[charjohncarter]

First, let me say this is very fine tonality in the image above and I can clearly see why you used Tri-X@250 with Ansel's method to compensate for the high contrast in the scene and it obviously worked very well.

Let me try to explain the reason why I am using such a high EI. Sometimes I take pictures of moving subjects in very low light conditions. As I would like to avoid motion blur as much as possible, a high shutter speed is desirable. Increasing the EI means increasing the shutter speed but also increasing the contrast of the negative, resulting in a relatively steep characteristic curve. So my main aim can not be to capture the full tonal range of the scene, but to get the best result given the constraints high shutter speed and low light. Naturally quite some shadow detail will be lost. The ideal is to get high acutance in the negative while capturing as many tones as possible. Of course, exposure will be tricky, as one has to decide in which EV range of the given scene one wants to have relatively good tonal separation in the negative.

In other words, I am looking for a development technique for using a high EI and to get high acutance in the negative while minimizing the overall contrast.

However, for aesthetic reasons, high contrast may be even desirable. I thought stand developing could be a viable route, as it tends to have a compensating effect and diluting the developer is said to have a positive effect on the acutance, but if you have any alternative suggestions, I would be more than happy to hear about it.

First of all, Rodinal will give you high acutance but it is a speed losing developer. Like they say in New York; 'there is no such thing as a free lunch.' So if you want to use that developer, for my type of photography, it is an unrealistic EI, maybe you should explore a speed gaining developer there are many and as you want to use stand development which lowers contrast you might find one that works for you. (Like I say I never use a high EI). I know that TmaX replenisher or developer are speed increasing developers, and I have a friend that uses box speed and gets good tonal results. I think some of the European developers are good speed increasing developers, so look around and don't tie yourself down to stand development.

There are many people on the site that have huge experience on speed increasing developers, one is the guy above: TomA.

The best film I ever used (but I didn't know it at the time for tonal range) was Verichrome and Verichrome Pan. As it was designed for box cameras, and they went out of style; they dropped it. It had three layers of emulsions: slow speed, medium speed, and a high for the time speed. This gave great tonality and latitude from a box camera, BUT it was inherently not a sharp film. I wish they or someone would bring it back. TmaX100 at 50 is the only film now (although Ilford may have something just the same) that I like for this type of photography.

 

[Tom A]

HC 110, 1:200 for 120 min. This is with a 30 year old filmstock, Orwo MA 8 ( a technical Pan type of film). Nominal speed 12 iso and I pushed it to 25 iso. High and low tones a bit off, but mid-tones look interesting. The guy with the wheel barrow looks like a bronze casting!
Leica M6 TTL and Nokton 50mm f1.1.

 

[haempe]

HC 110, 1:200 for 120 min. This is with a 30 year old filmstock, Orwo MA 8 ( a technical Pan type of film). Nominal speed 12 iso and I pushed it to 25 iso. High and low tones a bit off, but mid-tones look interesting. The guy with the wheel barrow looks like a bronze casting!
Leica M6 TTL and Nokton 50mm f1.1.

Tom, that's a surprise to see MA8 pics from you...
I got 18 5m cans from a out-of-business sale last year but haven't tested much yet.
Best result I got was at 20 ISO in OrWo A03 1+2. But after 30 years in the tight can it curls like hell...
Please share further experiences ... very interesting.

 

[charjohncarter]

HC 110, 1:200 for 120 min. This is with a 30 year old filmstock, Orwo MA 8 ( a technical Pan type of film). Nominal speed 12 iso and I pushed it to 25 iso. High and low tones a bit off, but mid-tones look interesting. The guy with the wheel barrow looks like a bronze casting!
Leica M6 TTL and Nokton 50mm f1.1.

We have similar times. I'm using BlueFire Police at 10 and develop in HC-110 1:125 for 20 minutes with very little agitation (68)(so I guess it fits the stand part of the topic). I'm going to drop back to 17 minutes on this roll as in bright sun the whites are blown. Here is one at 20 minutes as above:

 

[gho]

A very delicate look. I find the images you posted have a very soft, pleasing and quiet appearance. The tonal details, such as the reflections of the objects on the surface of the furniture, the shadow of the lamp and in the other one the bright reflections of the light shades on the window frame are a pleasure to look at and to discover.

 

[charjohncarter]

A very delicate look. I find the images you posted have a very soft, pleasing and quiet appearance. The tonal details, such as the reflections of the objects on the surface of the furniture, the shadow of the lamp and in the other one the bright reflections of the light shades on the window frame are a pleasure to look at and to discover.

Thanks very much gho. That is my style, although like everybody else I try different methods. I just haven't found one that I like as much as this. Ralph Gibson has a high contrast style that I can live with. I've tried it, but all I could see was many weeks of testing and refinement. If you have looked at his work you might like it.

 

[gho]

Ok here we go: 500 ml, ~4 ml HC-110, Tri-X, 1h stand development. Straight scans from the negatives.

I would say ~ ISO 1250 is a good base EI, but one has to evaluate the scene carefully and adjust exposure accordingly. Grain and sharpness are very good to my eye. I guess I have found my developer. If I have time, I will check out how they print.

 

[charjohncarter]

Good, you have results that are just fine. I find these scenes hard to meter and you seem to have it down. Plus, I agree with stand in these high contrast situations.

 

[gho]

Thank you! As for the metering, I just took some incident or reflective readings of the scene and sometimes added one or two stops, if for for example I wanted to put an element in a higher zone or vice versa.

I am now going for ISO 400 stand development and calculated around 35 minutes based on a rule of thumb and linear interpolation. The negatives are drying right now and are looking quite usable. My intention is to pinpoint that once and for all, because actually I do not want to mess with gazillions of different developers and films, but take photographs.

 

[charjohncarter]

Thank you! As for the metering, I just took some incident or reflective readings of the scene and sometimes added one or two stops, if for for example I wanted to put an element in a higher zone or vice versa.

I am now going for ISO 400 stand development and calculated around 35 minutes based on a rule of thumb and linear interpolation. The negatives are drying right now and are looking quite usable. My intention is to pinpoint that once and for all, because actually I do not want to mess with gazillions of different developers and films, but take photographs.

I know when you get what you want don't forget it. I have my times written down in about 5 places, just so I have easy reference. For instance, I use that Ansel Adam's semi-stand some times. Even though I like it; I don't use it that much so I have it all over the place so I can find it.

 

[Tom A]

This is where I find Flickr invaluable. When I upload shots, I tag them with film, developer, camera and lenses. When I can't find the scribbled notes - I just search my tags and can usually dig up whatever combination I tried.
Ia m just running some TriX with the PCK (Patrick Gainers Phenodine/Ascorbic acid/Kodalk soup). Did 5 rolls last night and shooting up a storm with TriX and XX for a trial run with PCK/Rodinal 1:100. Just want to see if there will be any marked difference.
Georg, Your stuff looks really good too. Might try that later. We have been promised some sun for a couple of days so I might go Technical Pan/Minicopy II in the old POTA mix. You need a lot of sunshine for 12/25 iso!

 

[Tom A]

This is with the Orwo MA 8, a high contrast copyfilm, here rated at 25 iso. HC 110 1:200/120 min.
It works fine as long as you keep any bright spots out of the image. Look like it has a pretty narrow band of f-stops, probably around 5-5,5 stops. I use a LunaPro SBC to meter as it has a swing needle with 3 stops under and 3 stops over. If the needle doesn't hit the stops on +/- - it works with high contrast films and stand development.
M6 TTL and Nokton 50mm f1.1
The pedestrian bridge has a steel grid deck and dogs hate it. This guy insisted on being carried across!

 

[AndySig]

This thread came at a most opportune moment as I have just discovered stand development. I read somewhere that you can use any developer. Here is one from HP5 in Ilfotec LC29 1:100 60 mins. Scanned from neg and levels adjusted. I'm an absolute beginner at this sort of thing so I've no idea if the image counts as a good one in terms of stand development e.g. is it sharp enough, contrasty enough etc? PS Sorry it's only there as a thumbnail. How do I get the image to appear like the rest of those on this thread?

 

[gho]

500 ml water, 5ml HC-110, Tri-X@400, auto exposure in pocket camera, 35min stand development, flat scans.

 

[zsas]

Anyone know how HP5+ is in HC110? Tried it in Rodinal and thought I've read (yeah I know on the Internet) that HP5+ is a joy in HC110 but Rodinal isn't the best fit...

 

[gho]

This thread came at a most opportune moment as I have just discovered stand development. I read somewhere that you can use any developer.

There are a lot of myths concerning stand development flying around. The best references are in my opinion the more technical writings about film development. I would suggest to stick to one developer that is known to work and to start finding the times and dilutions that work for you.

Here is one from HP5 in Ilfotec LC29 1:100 60 mins. Scanned from neg and levels adjusted. I'm an absolute beginner at this sort of thing so I've no idea if the image counts as a good one in terms of stand development e.g. is it sharp enough, contrasty enough etc?

Hard to say, it really depends on what you are up to and what you like. Some people seem to tune their development to their printing or scanning method. If you like your results, it is just fine. To my eyes, the scan you posted looks good.

PS Sorry it's only there as a thumbnail. How do I get the image to appear like the rest of those on this thread?

You have to paste the URL of the image into the form that appears if you click on the landscape icon.

 

[gho]

Anyone know how HP5+ is in HC110? Tried it in Rodinal and thought I've read (yeah I know on the Internet) that HP5+ is a joy in HC110 but Rodinal isn't the best fit...

Same reply as above, if you like it, stick with it. Basically all developers work. One error that seems to be common is to change the developer too early, if one is not satisfied with the output. For example, a friend of mine used Rodinal and he did not like the contrast of the negative (too flat). He then started thinking about changing the developer. But in fact it is possible to get high contrast negatives with Rodinal too, by for example using a longer time and adjusting ones exposures accordingly.

I have not tried HP-5 in Rodinal, but I am sure it is quite usable. Rodinal can produce quite some pronounced and sharp grain. Some people like that, some don't.

 

[charjohncarter]

This is with the Orwo MA 8, a high contrast copyfilm, here rated at 25 iso. HC 110 1:200/120 min.
It works fine as long as you keep any bright spots out of the image. Look like it has a pretty narrow band of f-stops, probably around 5-5,5 stops. I use a LunaPro SBC to meter as it has a swing needle with 3 stops under and 3 stops over. If the needle doesn't hit the stops on +/- - it works with high contrast films and stand development.
M6 TTL and Nokton 50mm f1.1
The pedestrian bridge has a steel grid deck and dogs hate it. This guy insisted on being carried across!

That is what I get too. The copy film that I use is best in doors and without whites outdoors.

gho, the last set are very nice.

 

[zsas]

Same reply as above, if you like it, stick with it. Basically all developers work. One error that seems to be common is to change the developer too early, if one is not satisfied with the output. For example, a friend of mine used Rodinal and he did not like the contrast of the negative (too flat). He then started thinking about changing the developer. But in fact it is possible to get high contrast negatives with Rodinal too, by for example using a longer time and adjusting ones exposures accordingly.

I have not tried HP-5 in Rodinal, but I am sure it is quite usable. Rodinal can produce quite some pronounced and sharp grain. Some people like that, some don't.

I love Rodinal too. I use it on all my slow film, I used another developer for years and recently switched to Rodinal, I'm just currious to hear how HC110 and Rodinal compare with HP5+. I am not too certain I'm as enamored with Rodinal with my HP5+ as I am with Rodinal and my slow films....I do agree one should stick with a dev till one knows its nature.