seany65
Well-known
Hello all,
Not sure where to put this, but as it's for a tlr camera I thought I'd put it here.
How does a Rollei bayonet 1 UV filter affect colour print film? I've read that it's not suitable for colour film because of the colour of its glass. I presume it gives the photos a yellow caste, but wouldn't this be filtered out at printing?
What precisely is the Rollei bayonet R1.5 filter? I've read that its a skylight filter, but I've also read that its a skylight 81a filter. Now even I know that skylights and 81a filters are different, with the 81a being an actual warm up filter, whereas the skylight filter removes some of the UV and also lessens the blue-ishness of shadows. From what I can tell the R1.5 filter does look stronger than the usual skylight filter, but it seems to have a different colour in every photo I've seen on the web. Some look like a normal skylight filter but others look more like very light brown.
Ay help would be much appreciated.
Not sure where to put this, but as it's for a tlr camera I thought I'd put it here.
How does a Rollei bayonet 1 UV filter affect colour print film? I've read that it's not suitable for colour film because of the colour of its glass. I presume it gives the photos a yellow caste, but wouldn't this be filtered out at printing?
What precisely is the Rollei bayonet R1.5 filter? I've read that its a skylight filter, but I've also read that its a skylight 81a filter. Now even I know that skylights and 81a filters are different, with the 81a being an actual warm up filter, whereas the skylight filter removes some of the UV and also lessens the blue-ishness of shadows. From what I can tell the R1.5 filter does look stronger than the usual skylight filter, but it seems to have a different colour in every photo I've seen on the web. Some look like a normal skylight filter but others look more like very light brown.
Ay help would be much appreciated.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Especially with color print film, a UV filter will not cause any noticeable difference -- as you said, the printing process will pretty much nullify it. Yes, I think the 1.5 gives maybe a little warmer result but again, it shouldn't be obtrusive, especially with prints.
seany65
Well-known
I know an ordinary UV wouldn't cause any colour cast on a film, but we're talking the rather pale yellow Rollei version, which is a little paler than their old "Sports" filter (what the ruddy-blime is a "sport" filter supposed to do?), and when laid on a white surface makes it look very pale yellow. I wonder why every other company's UV filter is clear but Rollei's isn't? Could it be not really a UV filter, it just has the effect of making the (B+W) a little bit more contrasty which they claim is a UV effect?
I'm wondering if I'd be better off with a "H-1" filter instead. Bah! Piggin' Rollei! Couldn't they have stuck with the same designations as everyone else?
I'm wondering if I'd be better off with a "H-1" filter instead. Bah! Piggin' Rollei! Couldn't they have stuck with the same designations as everyone else?
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CMur12
Veteran
The Rollei H-1 "haze" filter is a normal UV filter. The filter they designate "UV" is a strong UV filter specifically for high altitudes and sunny beach scenes, where UV light is especially high. I believe the "UV" filter reduces light transmission by 1/3 stop.
The R1.5 filter is a very mild warming/amber filter.
- Murray
The R1.5 filter is a very mild warming/amber filter.
- Murray
CMur12
Veteran
I might add that the "R" filters come in different grades; the higher the number, the stronger the correction. Conversely, "B" filters are cooling filters, with the same numerical grading system.
- Murray
seany65
Well-known
Thanks for info Murray.
So, as far as I understand it, Rollei's R1.5 is actually more like an 81A warm up filter than a normal skylight 1A or 1B? I think I've seen filters with R1.2 on them (I can't remember where though), so I presume those ones would be more like a sky 1A or 1B?
Hmmm, would the "1.5" bit be a filter factor, meaning we have to increase exposure by 1/2 a stop?
no blurb on my Rollei UV filter mentions any sort of filter factor, so maybe they think the films can cope without compensation?
So, as far as I understand it, Rollei's R1.5 is actually more like an 81A warm up filter than a normal skylight 1A or 1B? I think I've seen filters with R1.2 on them (I can't remember where though), so I presume those ones would be more like a sky 1A or 1B?
Hmmm, would the "1.5" bit be a filter factor, meaning we have to increase exposure by 1/2 a stop?
no blurb on my Rollei UV filter mentions any sort of filter factor, so maybe they think the films can cope without compensation?
CMur12
Veteran
Hi Sean,
I have a Bay 1 R1.5 and I had a Bay 2 R2.0 filter. The R1.5 may be equivalent to an 81A, but I'm not sure. Other than the two R-filters I mentioned here, my experience with warming filters has been limited to 81B. I think the R2.0 was still lighter than an 81B.
In terms of filter factors, the 81B requires an increase of 1/3 stop, so the lighter R1.5 couldn't require an adjustment of 1/2 stop.
. . .
I just got out the Rollei R1.5 filter and a B+W 81B, both in Bay 1. The 81B is significantly darker than the R1.5. The R1.5 is marked with a filter factor of "1." The R1.5 is noticeably amber and noticeably more colored than a Skylight filter, which I believe is an almost undetectable magenta. Personally, I would be inclined to use the R1.5 much as a Skylight filter. The light where I live is often on the cool side, so I often resort to a warming filter to compensate when shooting color reversal/positive/slide film.
- Murray
seany65
Well-known
Murray, I've got quite a few lenses and cameras and almost all have Hoya hmc sky1b or Hoya coated sky1a filters (depending on what's available in their particular thread size - usually coated in 22.5mm etc and multicoated for Tamron, Nikon and Mamiya Sekor), and the slight colour of any of them is fairly easy to see, especially if you put them on a white surface.
Hmmm, is the Rollei UV lighter than their R1.5 filter? From what I can tell from all the listings I've it is, but most listings of the R1.5 seem to be darker or lighter than the example I've just been looking at, or the next one I'm going to look at.
I'll probably stick to the Rollei UV filter I have now until after the first colour film has been processed some time next year.
Hmmm, is the Rollei UV lighter than their R1.5 filter? From what I can tell from all the listings I've it is, but most listings of the R1.5 seem to be darker or lighter than the example I've just been looking at, or the next one I'm going to look at.
I'll probably stick to the Rollei UV filter I have now until after the first colour film has been processed some time next year.
CMur12
Veteran
Sean, I just got out the Rollei UV and R1.5 filters, along with a Skylight 1A and a Skylight 1B. I looked at all of them on a white surface.
Rollei UV vs R1.5:
My UV filter has a yellowish tinge, as you observed, and it gives no filter factor. The only other marking on the UV filter ring is a red "R."
The R1.5 is darker (than the UV) in its amber hue. On the R1.5 filter ring, it shows additional markings of "R 1" and "- 0."
I just got out the "Complete Rollei TLR User's Manual," by Ian Parker. It provides the following on page 109:
"UV-filter: A very light filter for landscape photography at high altitudes; to avoid too dark a sky where ultraviolet rays are stronger than in the plane. Exposure 1 1/2 times." (It says nothing about color vs B&W film or effects in other lighting.)
On page 111 of the same book, about the UV filter, from a chart:
"Effect on colours: absorbs ultraviolet rays, blue slightly kept back. Against reduced definition over 6500 feet."
"To be used for: high mountains over 6500 feet (2000 m) and seaside."
"Exposure: 1.5x."
On page 111 of the same book, about the H-1 filter, from the same chart:
"Effect on colours: absorbs ultraviolet rays, suppresses blue tinge."
"To be used for: Colour photographs of distant views."
"Exposure: Colour film normal exposure."
I dug out a Vivitar Skylight 1A filter and a Hoya HMC Skylight 1B. The R1.5 is definitely darker than the Skylight filters, though still quite light. Maybe it is closer to an 81A filter, as you suggested.
I've never actually used the UV filter, so I can't speak to its actual effect on film. I don't know if it has any additional impact on spectral sensitivity beyond the obvious yellowish cast. I'm surprised that no one else here has any experience with this filter.
- Murray
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seany65
Well-known
Murray, Thank you for going to so much trouble, and for the info.
It does look like some of the info they supply seems a little contradictory - on one page the UV filter is used to "avoid too dark a sky", on another page " blue slightly kept back" which I take to mean darkens a blue sky.
There's no filter factor on the UV, but on one page it says "filter factor 1.5".
Meanwhile theur R1.5 filter is darker than the UV, but on the ring it has "R1" (Presumably the fitting) and "- 0" which looks like it's meant to be the filter factor.
I think the R's are either Black or Red depending on the year they were made.
It does look like some of the info they supply seems a little contradictory - on one page the UV filter is used to "avoid too dark a sky", on another page " blue slightly kept back" which I take to mean darkens a blue sky.
There's no filter factor on the UV, but on one page it says "filter factor 1.5".
Meanwhile theur R1.5 filter is darker than the UV, but on the ring it has "R1" (Presumably the fitting) and "- 0" which looks like it's meant to be the filter factor.
I think the R's are either Black or Red depending on the year they were made.
CMur12
Veteran
Hi Sean,
I agree that the terminology regarding "holding back the blue" is a bit strange.
Ian Parker gives the filter factor of 1.5 for the UV filter in text on page 109 and in the chart on page 111, so he's consistent there. I have no idea where he got his information, though. In the chart, he has a filter factor column for "Ortho" and another for "Pan." He doesn't consider color film unless he says so specifically, as he did for the H-1 filter.
Are you using the UV filter primarily to protect the lens, or do you specifically seek UV filtration?
- Murray
I agree that the terminology regarding "holding back the blue" is a bit strange.
Ian Parker gives the filter factor of 1.5 for the UV filter in text on page 109 and in the chart on page 111, so he's consistent there. I have no idea where he got his information, though. In the chart, he has a filter factor column for "Ortho" and another for "Pan." He doesn't consider color film unless he says so specifically, as he did for the H-1 filter.
Are you using the UV filter primarily to protect the lens, or do you specifically seek UV filtration?
- Murray
seany65
Well-known
Both really. I do have skylight 1b or 1a filters when possible, as with normal UV filters there doesn't seem to be any sort of marginal "warming" going on. I had a fed 2 with Industar 26m and a UV filter and the images seemed rather cooler than I like.
Does Ian Parker mention any filter factor for the "R1.5" filter?
Does Ian Parker mention any filter factor for the "R1.5" filter?
CMur12
Veteran
So you do have normal skylight filters, as well. I was wondering if the Rollei "UV" filter was your only option for ultraviolet haze.
Do you know if the cool rendering with the FED is the result of the Industar lens or the UV filter?
The "R" and "B" filters that Ian Parker referenced had a different numerical system. In a paragraph on Colour Conversion Filters, page 107, he names filters R2, R5, and R11.
On a chart, page 110, he has an entry for "R2/R1" (listed together), filter factor 1, Wratten Equivalent 81A or 1A. From the chart, I think he is saying that the R2 is equivalent to an 81A and that an R1 is equivalent to a 1A. He makes no reference to an R1.5.
- Murray
seany65
Well-known
Murray, Thank you for the further info.
I have skylights on almost all of my lenses, and UV's on the rest (on old cameras that have sizes that are hard to find), and one was on the 635 when I got it stuck in the Yashica hood (I also had the Rollei UV, but that was in the zip up case that has all my other Bayonet 1 filters in), I sent both back to the seller to get it unstuck in case I damaged either hood or filter in trying to do so. I have noticed a tiny scratch in the sky filter, but I don't know if that had been on it when I got it, I caused it or the hood seller caused it, so now I'm looking for another Hoya sky filter.
Sorry, but I've no idea if the "coolness" of the images was down to the I26m or the filter, I didn't do any comparison shots as I think I'm allergic to using lenses without filters (and hoods) on them.
I have skylights on almost all of my lenses, and UV's on the rest (on old cameras that have sizes that are hard to find), and one was on the 635 when I got it stuck in the Yashica hood (I also had the Rollei UV, but that was in the zip up case that has all my other Bayonet 1 filters in), I sent both back to the seller to get it unstuck in case I damaged either hood or filter in trying to do so. I have noticed a tiny scratch in the sky filter, but I don't know if that had been on it when I got it, I caused it or the hood seller caused it, so now I'm looking for another Hoya sky filter.
Sorry, but I've no idea if the "coolness" of the images was down to the I26m or the filter, I didn't do any comparison shots as I think I'm allergic to using lenses without filters (and hoods) on them.