Rollei R3 : coarse grain issue

[ericzhu]

Just bought a bulk film of Rollei R3, hearing that it is out of production. After self-loading in a casette, try shooting indoors with exposure set at ISO400. After shooting, I pre-soak the film for 1 minute, then develop with Rollei RHS 1:7 20 degrees for 18 minutes (a little push to ISO800): For the 1st minute, inversion once every 2~3 seconds; then every 30 seconds, inversion 5~6 times. For the stop, I use tap water once, then fix it in Kodak rapid fix for 5 minutes.

Last night, enlarging with leitz focomat V35. Oh, my god, the grain is too obvious and coarse compared with kodak trix, which I develp it by D76. It is painful to enlarge the portrait pictures for ladies. So I doubt the inversion is too much, which causes the grain. Could anyone share your professional experience of developing this R3 film?

Appreciate your contribution. I intend to use R3 set ISO to 1600 shooting for birthday party in the coming week, the candle-lit scenes (maybe f4, 1/8).

By the way, I find 2 things about this film:
1. After the development finished, RHS turns into green/blue, the color is scary; Also lots of bubbles.
2. The film base is clear.

 

[Freakscene]

Rollei R3 was yet another cynical marketing ploy to move traffic film into the photographic market. The notion that it was 'pushable' with quality pictorial results is absurd.

Shoot it at EI200, develop carefully for fine grain and it is beautiful. At any higher speed it was very, very temperamental for pictorial use in my experience. When it works, it works spectacularly, but it is also very inconsistent.

If you work out how to make it work all the time, let us know. I still have a few hundred feet in the freezer.

Marty

 

[Jerevan]

I've done this film in 120 only, with Xtol 1:1 at 25+ minutes (yes, true!) and Rodinal 1:25 at 12 minutes, all of it at iso 400, which in hindsight was too optimistic. I concur with Marty that it is a finicky film and it needs some attention when developing, keeping the right temperature and giving a long presoak. The recommendations I have seen has been 5 minutes. In the end I gave up and gave the rest of my rolls away.

 

[ericzhu]

2 days ago, I shot R3 for candle light birthday scene, f4~2.8, 1/4~1/8 second. Developed with RHS 1+15, rotating tank 2 cycles every 10 minutes, total 50 minutes. The result is satisfactory after print to 8*8 inch (I use robot 24 square format, 54 photos on 135 roll film). Another indoor shot near window at daytime (ISO400) shows beautiful grains, really amazement, no digital would express.

Last night, I develop another roll of R3 (ISO 200 for indoor shots) using RLS (1+4, 24 C degrees, 2 inversions every 1 minute, total 29 minutes), but the outcome of film is too thin, totally under-developed. Next time, I shall over-expose for ISO below 200.

 

[Fotohuis]

In fact Rollei R3 needs a depth developer due to the fact the developer needs to penetrate in the 3-layers which are iso 50-150 and 500 cubic silver halide crystals.
Rollei High Speed (Amaloco AM74, the Netherlands) , which is a phenidone-hydroqiunon developer, pH just under 10,2 works like this in a dilution of 1+7 or 1+9. When going to 1+15 or 1+19, this developer is going to work in the surface, which is less suitable for this film.
Therefore also the pre-soak, to remove the A.H. layer, (blue-green) and to give the developer more access to penetrate into the film emulsion.

Rollei Low Speed, CG512 (an Uddo Rafay, receipture) is an ultra fine grain (depth) developer, working at 24 degrees C. It's like Perceptol, very fine grain, loss of effective film speed and less sharpness.

At iso 100 or 200 RLS/CG512 should give very satisfactory results with the R3 film. When the negatives are very thin at iso 200, I suspect there is something wrong with the developer. You have to keep this developer pretty cool (4-6 degrees C.) and a full bottle. Dilution 1+4.

Here a link for more data:
http://www.fotografie-in-schwarz-weiss.de/CG512.htm

 

[besk]

I developed a roll of 35mm R3 a day or so ago. ASA 200, fresh Xtol 1:2 for 25:45min at 68F (20C) hand rolled in Jobo drum for continuous agitation.

I am quite pleased at the results. Grain was fine but I haven't enlarged it yet.

Looking forward to tryiing the Rollei Superpan 200 in the States soon - I hope.

 

[ericzhu]

In fact Rollei R3 needs a depth developer due to the fact the developer needs to penetrate in the 3-layers which are iso 50-150 and 500 cubic silver halide crystals.
Rollei High Speed (Amaloco AM74, the Netherlands) , which is a phenidone-hydroqiunon developer, pH just under 10,2 works like this in a dilution of 1+7 or 1+9. When going to 1+15 or 1+19, this developer is going to work in the surface, which is less suitable for this film.
Therefore also the pre-soak, to remove the A.H. layer, (blue-green) and to give the developer more access to penetrate into the film emulsion.

Rollei Low Speed, CG512 (an Uddo Rafay, receipture) is an ultra fine grain (depth) developer, working at 24 degrees C. It's like Perceptol, very fine grain, loss of effective film speed and less sharpness.

At iso 100 or 200 RLS/CG512 should give very satisfactory results with the R3 film. When the negatives are very thin at iso 200, I suspect there is something wrong with the developer. You have to keep this developer pretty cool (4-6 degrees C.) and a full bottle. Dilution 1+4.

Here a link for more data:
http://www.fotografie-in-schwarz-weiss.de/CG512.htm

Forget to mention for my last thread: While I use RHS 1+15 for developing the candle light scene, I pre-soak the film 5 minutes.

As for the thin roll of R3 ASA 200, RLS is fresh, and first opened from a full bottle. I doubt it is due to half-stop underexposure, but it is a little too thin. And R3 film turns to be a little yellow after fixed with Kodak rapidfixer. I haven't printed the film yet, I would try it in the coming week and see the result.

 

[ericzhu]

And Just get a message from another guy: For R3 ASA up 200, RLS is not recommended , it has the problem of underdevelopment. Also some guys suggest that for R3 ASA 800, use R3 1+12, 22 C degrees, develop 27 minutes.

 

[Fotohuis]

R3 iso 400 AM74/RHS 1+9 16:30 min. 20 degrees C.
Yashica Mat 124-G, Mill "de Nijverheid" Ravenstein, the Netherlands.

R3 iso 400 AM74/RHS 1+7 15:00 min. 20 degrees C. Y-filter, Result: almost no haze in the Rocky Mountains, Colorado. (Rollei R3 is up to 700nm in sensitivity)
Leica M7 - Summicron 2.0/50mm.

 

[Fotohuis]

R3 iso 800 AM74/RHS 1+7 18:00 min. 20 degrees C.
Leica M7 - Summicron 2.0/50mm, Karlsbridge Prague.
R3 is less recommended over iso 1000. The highest speed layer is iso 500 so iso 1000 is already a push +1 for this 3-layer Traffic Surveillance Film.

All results done with a pre-soak of at least 3 minutes.

Rollei Low Speed/CG512 is an ultra fine grain developer which causes at least one F-stop speed loss with an avarage B&W film. Use R3 on iso 100 or 200 with this developer.