Rolleicord III -- Frame Stop Does Not Work

[retinax]

I have a similar issue, although with a Cord V, and occasionally a frame locks.
It works fine when I dry run it with back open, without film. Also quite minty copy, I doubt something is worn. Any ideas?

Did you fix the problem, Nick?
Which substance should I soak the leather in?

No experience with these cameras here, but... If the leather is indeed glued on with shellack, the right solvent is ethanol. Ask me how I accidentally confirmed my guitar is actually finished with shellac... 🙁 You probably should treat the leather, if it's real, sparingly with some leather oil afterwards because ethanol will dry it out. It could also wash out some dye, so be careful, try first in a small spot. Actually try first if it can be peeled off dry.

One possibility with old cameras is always dried out, sticky lubricants, in the counter mechanism they could have this effect.

 

[Prest_400]

I have a similar issue, although with a Cord V, and occasionally the frame locks.
It works fine when I dry run it with back open, without film. Also quite minty copy, I doubt something is worn. Any ideas?

Did you fix the problem, Nick?
Which substance should I soak the leather in?

Have an V and it happens specially around frames 4-7. The counter sticks and the interlock blocks advance. Curiously I find that holding the shutter lever after exposure lets advance do its thing, but don't do that long otherwise it's gonna advance and skip frames. I notice when it does that, opening the back may not reset the counter so it's a sticky mechanism.



Sadly ine requires some focus adjustment so it sits awaiting a more proper CLA... Or just call it a Rolleicord with a Holga identity crisis 😛

 

[Karlovak]

Luckily didn't need to use the alcohol, slowly tore the leather off and helped it with a small screwdriver.


I took the side plate off and tested it dry, with tape on spool to imitate film, and with a film itself, everything SEEMED to work.

It's actually annoying, since I had the issue with my first roll through this camera, then dry tested (worked), then I tried with a new roll - same error, and here I am.
The first ruined roll had 5 shots on the negative, with the gap between first and second being the largest, last 3 exposures were working fine. The frame number was nearly on, but ever so narrowly fell back with every wind, failed to lock in. The second roll I rewound on the original spool in the dark.

 

[Karlovak]

It appears though that when I use little tape to imitate the start of the roll, it takes more winds to switch between frames (6-7), but when I use more tape to imitate a nearly exposed roll, it takes about 3-4 winds. The frame switching mechanism seems to have some difficulty when there isn't much pressure on it from the film.

 

[Karlovak]

Made a video of the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za935k7YN8M

It seems to only happen when the double exposure lock is on, locks fine otherwise.
Already doused everything in the side panel with naphtha and gun oil.
It sometimes doesn't happen when camera is down sideways, like in the video.
Yet happens all the time when camera is upright, so gravity also holding something back.

It seems the culprit is the gear under the wind-knob not getting locked by the tip of the ratchet.
Might be from the ratchet not getting enough tension to hold the gear from advancing?

Any ideas? Should I open up the other side- or the front panel?

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Made a video of the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za935k7YN8M

It seems to only happen when the double exposure lock is on, locks fine otherwise.
Already doused everything in the side panel with naphtha and gun oil.
It sometimes doesn't happen when camera is down sideways, like in the video.
Yet happens all the time when camera is upright, so gravity also holding something back.

It seems the culprit is the gear under the wind-knob not getting locked by the tip of the ratchet.
Might be from the ratchet not getting enough tension to hold the gear from advancing?

Any ideas? Should I open up the other side- or the front panel?

Assuming all the relevant parts are moving freely and not sticking unduly it could be the ratchet tip if you can feel it trying to catch on the gear teeth. This can be carefully re-profiled but must follow the original profile or increased pressure needed on the release lever and a less progressive shutter release action can result. If the ratchet isn't skipping the gear teeth at all, it's likely the lever itself isn't moving correctly. Experiment with manually helping the lever etc to analyse the nature of the fault and compare the effects of the lens board raised or lower to different focal distances. Correct operation of the system should be verified at any focus distance before it may be called "good".
Cheers
Brett

 

[Karlovak]

Hmm, it appears the lever needs to be helped a little (when the double exposure lock is activated), then the tip of the ratchet clicks with the gear. It doesn't need to be helped when the double exposure lock isn't activated. I wonder how the mechanism works that I can't see (what travels from the double exposure lock knob in the front left of the camera to the opened right side panel).

 

[Dan Daniel]

Have you adjusted the eccentric nut at the lower right edge of the wind knob? At about 5 o'clock if the camera was sitting upright. You'll see a silver ring with a screw in the middle and one slot in the ring. Loosen the screw and move rotate this ring, using the slot as both a leverage point and an indicator of how much you are moving it. Do small movements in both directions, maybe 2mm at a time.


The connection to the double exposure system is the horizontal bar (when camera is upright) that travels from the back of he focus plate and the front of the camera, just below the focus axle. The front edge has a tab that goes into a silver piece with a long slot in it. The silver piece is then commented to the lens board's double exposure levers. If you fire the camera you should see this moving. It is possible to put the camera back together and not engage the lens board tab properly with the silver lsotted piece, and then life gets messy!

 

[Karlovak]

Hey thanks! That nut did it, it seems.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Hey thanks! That nut did it, it seems.

Great! It adjusts how deep the tooth or whatever it is called goes into the gears for stopping the wind knob.