Rolleigöran
Newbie
Hi I bought a Rolleiflex 2,8 c and the shutter wont fire. Nothing happens. Iopened up the camera and it looks like someone tried to do a CLA but couldnt get i together. When I manouvre the shutter trigging mechanism a few little bits turn, but nothing happens. I have looked for detailed pics of this particular shutter but all I can find are detailed pics of similar shutters, the synchro compur MXV. Rick Olesen has posted one pic of this exact shutter but I would really need some more. If you can point me in the right direction I would be glad. Already have the synhcro compur manual from the french website, but it doesnt cover this particular version.
Cheers, Göran
Cheers, Göran
Ronald M
Veteran
Rolleigöran
Newbie
Thanks Ronald! I´d like to fix this myself, its a kind of hobby. I have done CLA´s on other rolleis, but this one is a bit more complex then the others.
cheers, Göran
cheers, Göran
mooge
Well-known
try sending Rick Oleson an email? he's also a member here too, maybe he'll see this.
cheers.
cheers.
I know it says "Synchro Compur" on the front, but it's really a Compur Rapid design, booster spring for 1/500 etc. Try searching out some information about that or for details of immediately preceding models such as the 2.8B or the Automats produced concurrently with the C. They might possibly be a different size but should be similar.
Cheers
Brett
Cheers
Brett
Rolleigöran
Newbie
I sent Rick a mail and he had some nice pictures. I will check inte the compur rapid also. I have done cla on K4a and that shutter is not very similar, I think but I will take a closer look. Thanks a lot!!
cheers, Göran
cheers, Göran
Rolleigöran
Newbie
This is a pic of the cocked shutter and this little thing (I guess...) should move when you trip the shutter. But nothing happens
Someone has probably tried to make a CLA an failed. Can anyone see anything obviously wrong? Maybe something with the flash sync?
cheers, Göran
Someone has probably tried to make a CLA an failed. Can anyone see anything obviously wrong? Maybe something with the flash sync?
cheers, Göran
Rolleigöran
Newbie
I managed to find the full Compur manual for download here:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/44503560/Compur-Shutter-Repair-Manual#download
Pages 90-97 shows a shutter that is very similar to the one in the 2,8 C. Hopefully I will get it sorted out. The escapement for the self timer feels very rough though. Any trick to make it smother? Im cleaning it in IPA (Not India pale ale) and lubricating the axles. Maybe its supposed to be rough?
cheers, Göran
https://www.scribd.com/doc/44503560/Compur-Shutter-Repair-Manual#download
Pages 90-97 shows a shutter that is very similar to the one in the 2,8 C. Hopefully I will get it sorted out. The escapement for the self timer feels very rough though. Any trick to make it smother? Im cleaning it in IPA (Not India pale ale) and lubricating the axles. Maybe its supposed to be rough?
cheers, Göran
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Your photos are not showing, at least for me.
It's an early Synchro-Compur #0. The basic mechanism is like a Compur-Rapid, as someone has said, but the flash sync timing mechanism is different as I remember.
IPA is not good for cleaning. Use naphtha.
It's an early Synchro-Compur #0. The basic mechanism is like a Compur-Rapid, as someone has said, but the flash sync timing mechanism is different as I remember.
IPA is not good for cleaning. Use naphtha.
Rolleigöran
Newbie
Turns out there are some parts of the shutter that are broken. You wouldnt happen to know if the same shutter is used in another, perhaps cheaper camera? Thanks about the heads up on the IPA, I will switch to naphta.
cheers, Göran
x-ray
Veteran
What about scavenging parts from an old Kodak Retina or an old view camera lens. I looked on EBay and there are quite a few lenses in the $50 or less range in this shutter. Also a fellow in India has a Rollei shutter from a 2.8 for sale.
Rolleigöran
Newbie
Thanks for the hint! The shutter in india is from a more modern 2.8 and wont fit. Maybe a shutter from zeiss super ikonta, Balda super baldax or Voightländer bessa could be a match, but its hard to confirm, and I would prefer to know which model of camera to take parts from. This shutter looks really similar to the one in 2.8 C
https://www.flickr.com/photos/35960028@N03/3660838994/in/photostream/
But is it the right size? Anybody knows? Dan Daniel wrote that the shutter in the 2.8 C is size #0. Dont know if the above mentioned folding cameras have the right size of shutter.
cheers, Göran
https://www.flickr.com/photos/35960028@N03/3660838994/in/photostream/
But is it the right size? Anybody knows? Dan Daniel wrote that the shutter in the 2.8 C is size #0. Dont know if the above mentioned folding cameras have the right size of shutter.
cheers, Göran
Rollei TLR's look like simple cameras, they are not.
Even experienced repair people stay away from them
if they are not trained to repair them.
Once an inexperienced person opens up a Rollei shutter,
they are well on the way to creating a door stop.
Ditto for first time Leica M shutter jobs.
Do yourself a favor, give the camera to a Rollei specialist.
Stephen
Dan Daniel
Well-known
In general I don't agree with the idea that Rolleiflexes are such amazingly complex and delicate devices that they should be left to experts. They are actually very well-designed simple devices with about 12 specific adjustments that are easily done, meant to be repeatedly serviced and repaired by repairmen around the world, not only those who were secretly trained in the dark woods of Germany by the light of the moon and bathed in bat blood or whatever it is that people think leads to their unholy magic.
But in this case, I agree whole-heartedly. To go into a Rolleiflex and a Synchro-Compur where neither one is working and shows signs of being incorrectly assembled is to find yourself beating your head against a wall for weeks to come. The odds of you successfully getting this camera working again are very very small.
And for the record, I think this holds true for a large large number of cameras that were not built by Rolleiflex, also.
I have repair people working for me, specializing in certain cameras.
Experienced people with 20 plus years of repair experience,
are the ones that told me Rollei TLRs should be left to those trained to repair them.
Stephen
Rolleigöran
Newbie
Thank you for your kind concern. The first camera that I cla´d was a rolleicord half a year ago. Since then I´ve done several more cords and flexes. Yesterday I fixed a k4a that had been badly cla´d and assembled wrong. The 2,8 c that I am working on now is good optically but otherwise a trainwreck. I take detailed pics of everything that I do so I´m not worried about screwing it up even more. But I really do need to know if the shutter from the Balda super Baldex or the Super Ikonta has the same size of the synchro compur shutter as 2.8 c.
cheers, Göran
cheers, Göran
x-ray
Veteran
Looking at the sync terminal and leverscit appears to be a #0. It's certainly not a 00 or a 1, 2 or 3.
All you need are parts, correct? You don't need the housing, correct? I'm guessing here but will almost bet money that the internal parts are the same in any compur rapid 0 specially in a given vintage. I'd say all of a specific model and size have exactly the same guts and will interchange. I'd guess all that differs is the outer shell built for the specific camera. The exceptions would be shutters like the the Hasselblad compurs.
x-ray
Veteran
Here's a suggestion, contact S K Grimes, Schneider Optical / Century Optical in California or someone like Paul Ebel. Any one of them can tell you if components from one compur (specify model and year) will fit another of the same model and vintage. There are one or two old timers at Scneider / century that probably will know. I know that Grimes and Ebel will know for sure. Grimes is the king of view camera lenses and shutters. He adapts hundreds of barrel mount lenses to shutters each year and rebuilds shutters of all kinds and sizes. He may even have the parts you need. It's Steve Grimes you would talk to.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Generally an f/3.5 lens will be installed on a #00 shutter, and an f/2.8 lens will be installed on a #0 shutter. A simple measurement of the overall diameter of the shutter body will be enough to determine if it's an #0 or #00. The 'Cord and the K4a are #00 shutters.
The period of the 2.8C was a transition time for Compurs. As Brett has mentioned, many of the Synchro models were basically Compur Rapids with a changed sync mechanism. Then again, I know that the Compur Rapid of the 2.8A and the Synchro Compur of the 2.8C are not the same internally.
Another issue is that camera companies had shutters modified for their specific installations.
Along with Grimes and Ebel, Flutot can provide help http://flutotscamerarepair.com/
The period of the 2.8C was a transition time for Compurs. As Brett has mentioned, many of the Synchro models were basically Compur Rapids with a changed sync mechanism. Then again, I know that the Compur Rapid of the 2.8A and the Synchro Compur of the 2.8C are not the same internally.
Another issue is that camera companies had shutters modified for their specific installations.
Along with Grimes and Ebel, Flutot can provide help http://flutotscamerarepair.com/
x-ray
Veteran
Grimes has thread diameters for each size shutter.
I wasn't aware the OO was used in cameras. I've only seen a few lenses mounted in them for view cameras. I had a 90 f8 super Angulon in the late 60's that was in a OO and my Veriwide 47 f8 SA is in one. There were some 65 f8 SA's in them as well. They never were that popular for view lenses because they had no press focus. You had to set them on Bulb and use a locking cable release to open them to focus on the GG.
Every 80mm Xenotar and Planar that I've seen mounted for a view camera or something like the Graflex XL were in O shutters. The 2 100mm Planars I had were in #1 shutters. The same should be true for the Xenotar.
I wasn't aware the OO was used in cameras. I've only seen a few lenses mounted in them for view cameras. I had a 90 f8 super Angulon in the late 60's that was in a OO and my Veriwide 47 f8 SA is in one. There were some 65 f8 SA's in them as well. They never were that popular for view lenses because they had no press focus. You had to set them on Bulb and use a locking cable release to open them to focus on the GG.
Every 80mm Xenotar and Planar that I've seen mounted for a view camera or something like the Graflex XL were in O shutters. The 2 100mm Planars I had were in #1 shutters. The same should be true for the Xenotar.