Rolleiflex shoots all 12 frames!

Robbie Bedell

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OK, Here is a new one for me. My Rolleiflex E2 is perfect, except...I load it and shoot all 12 frames...great. BUT then...instead of the crank free-turning until the film is wrapped completely around the spool, the camera advances yet one more frame and cocks the shutter as if there is still film in it, but the counter stays at 12. I can keep 'shooting' the about three of four frames and the films DOES spool up, but the crank never turns freely. I can live with this but it does bother me a bit. I hope I am making sense. Has anyone ever experienced this? Is it an easy fix?
 
Define easy. If you are comfortable removing the wind crank and mechanism, peeling back the skin, and removing the side panel (5 or 6 small screws), then checking the mesh of the film spool transfer gear and the counter gear and adjusting as needed (or tracking down other possible sources), no problem.


Just to be certain, when you close the back and tighten the latch, does the back sit tightly to the body around the perimeter?
 
Thank you Dan. I suppose I should say easy being a 'complicated' fix for even a pro. I would not attempt it myself. I actually just got this camera back from my repair guy who fixed a couple of separate issues, but when the camera was returned it has this new issue.

Yes, the camera is tight all the way around. It's in very good shape. I did call and talk to my repair man and he seemed a bit in a fog about it. He said he had never heard of this before. I was hoping someone else had and would ave a magic wand and fix this.

I am hoping I am not damaging anything by running out the film by clicking the shutter.

Thank you again Dan!
 
Thank you Dan. I suppose I should say easy being a 'complicated' fix for even a pro. I would not attempt it myself. I actually just got this camera back from my repair guy who fixed a couple of separate issues, but when the camera was returned it has this new issue.

Yes, the camera is tight all the way around. It's in very good shape. I did call and talk to my repair man and he seemed a bit in a fog about it. He said he had never heard of this before. I was hoping someone else had and would ave a magic wand and fix this.

I am hoping I am not damaging anything by running out the film by clicking the shutter.

Thank you again Dan!

It won't hurt it doing what you are doing and running out the film by firing the shutter again and again when it locks up.

I'd suggest sending it back for your repairman to look at. The frame counter, which is also the frame spacing system (called the film metering system by Rollei), has a section with no gear teeth. This section comes around and when you get to the twelfth frame it simply stop moving forward when you wind, allowing for the film to be wound to the end. I've seen examples of the gear teeth being stripped off at this section which puts this process out of sync.

This >might< be what is going on. Or it could be that the middle gear in this system is slightly out of adjustment. The adjustment is very small, and I have no idea if it could be causing this.

I've had something like what you describe happen right after re-assembling the mechanism. But on the second roll, it doesn't happen. I've also had a spring come undone in shipping that led to what you are describing, but that was a Minolta Autocord, not a Rolleiflex. I'm with your repair guy, not really understanding what is going on. But once he gets the side open and runs a test, I bet he'll find it.

If you have some backing paper around, I'd run it through. Put a second layer of tape on the inside where the film is attached to be certain to trip the Automat mechanism. It might clear itself.
 
Thanks Dan. I have shot three test rolls and two live rolls through the camera and it has not worked itself out. That is one of the things my guy said might happen. I think I will take your advice and send it back to him. It's frustrating as this camera has been out so many times during the last few years and it's always something new that happens to it. It's almost as if it is haunted. Someday I hope to have it right.

Thank you for your input Dan. I will report back if I have any success.
 
Just a follow-up. I sent the camera to my repair guy and after a lot of work he has informed me that the camera is not repairable. It had some other issues besides the counter and they were all related. Apparently the camera seems to have been dropped in the past and all the gears inside were not matching up. Some others had attempted repairs with parts not original to the camera. So..after a long journey it is over for this camera. I will be looking for a replacement. I just wanted to thank Dan and everyone for commenting on my post...Robbie
 
That's sad to hear. Make sure you get the camera back, it's still valuable, especially the lenses could find a new home in one of the cameras with separation or otherwise damaged lenses.
From your post #3, your repair guy doesn't sound super competent (although he may just be more honest than most). Consider getting a second opinion.
 
Just a follow-up. I sent the camera to my repair guy and after a lot of work he has informed me that the camera is not repairable. It had some other issues besides the counter and they were all related. Apparently the camera seems to have been dropped in the past and all the gears inside were not matching up. Some others had attempted repairs with parts not original to the camera. So..after a long journey it is over for this camera. I will be looking for a replacement. I just wanted to thank Dan and everyone for commenting on my post...Robbie

As retinax says, the camera is still worth something. What is the lens on it? Any chance it's a f/3.5? I've always wanted to put a 75mm Planar or Xenotar lens on a Minolta Autocord body! Hmmm....

Also will say that it isn't clear what your repair guy means. The times I have seen the interior parts of a Rollei showing wear and such, the cameras looked like it from the outside. Takes a lot to wear out a Rollei.
 
The thing is that when I bought this camera about six years ago it had already had an overhaul of the transport system by Harry. The sticker is still there. When the camera acted up way back then I returned it to him and he looked at it again, did some work and sent it back to me and told me there was nothing wrong with the camera. He said any malfunction was due to my not using it correctly. He said that I was inadvertently hitting the double exposure dial as I advanced. I have been using Rollies long enough to know better. I do not want to doubt his integrity as the camera has been shipped to at least one other repair person so I can't vouch if it has been dropped by anyone since. It sure has not been dropped by me and has always been carefully packed. But this camera has been jinxed from day one. I will get the camera back. It has a 3.5 Xenotar and a Maxwell screen. It is a beautiful camera. I am a bit upset about the whole experience.
 
I just found my paperwork. Harry did an overhaul of the transport for me in 2015. I think when I get my camera back I will send it to him one more time before I give up..Thank you all...!
 
Please don’t give up on the camera.

One of my favorite Rolleiflex cameras has the Zeiss-Opton Tessar f3,5 75 taking lens.
My, my I love the negatives, crisp, sharp, beautiful contrast.

My wife and I are helping our son & his wife with spring break and, now that I have it out, I’m going to make some family photos using the beautiful Rolleiflex.

Let me see, I’ll take a few rolls of Ilfords FP4 and Delta 100!
 
As retinax says, the camera is still worth something. What is the lens on it? Any chance it's a f/3.5? I've always wanted to put a 75mm Planar or Xenotar lens on a Minolta Autocord body! Hmmm....

Also will say that it isn't clear what your repair guy means. The times I have seen the interior parts of a Rollei showing wear and such, the cameras looked like it from the outside. Takes a lot to wear out a Rollei.

Dan, My guy said that there are wrong parts inside..but I really have no idea.
 
Hard to say what is going on from the photo, but it looks to be all there. And all the teeth appear to be on the counter dial. 'All there' is relative, of course, as Rollei basic design stayed pretty consistent from model to model, but that doesn't mean that all parts are interchangeable. there are some parts that look very similar but have slight dimensional changes over the years that do make swapping parts around a failure.
 
Thank you Dan. I was wondering f you might be able to recommend a solid Rolleiflex repair person other than Harry. I do have the names of some others (and have used them!) but with your Rollei experience I am wondering who your second choice might be..
 
How does the frame counter advance without first triggering the film sensor? Here's a couple of pictures from a camera I bought in pieces and reassembled (notice the position of the film sensor in the lower left):
 

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