Sad day as film prices go up here

[cbass]

My drive to work one way is 3.1 miles.

Two words, brother: bi cycle! You've got an ideal bike commute distance. Lucky you. Regular unleaded gasoline is about $2.80 per gallon here in New England and I don't look so silly riding my Trek hybrid for errands anymore. This summer I will try to ride to work one day per week (32 miles round trip) as well.

If fuel prices keep going up (and with an oil man in the White House, is there any doubt?) I'll have to cut back on film shooting and processing anyway.

 

[EmilGil]

I suddenly feel pretty good again, having bought 100 rolls of APX100 from German eb*y, maybe the last chance to buy it fresh. I payed €2.1/roll this time, last time I found it, it was €4.3 and when it was readily available €3.4

Oh yeah, gas is about $1.5/litre here in Sweden...

 

[bmattock]

I just stocked up on some Kodak 100 Gold for some summer shooting. I believe that Kodak Gold is imported from China. It was $1.80 a roll. It may not be as gorgeous as Velvia, but it was definitely affordable.

Aren't Kodak and Lucky the same?

Kodak owns a majority interest in Lucky (as well as a majority or minority interest in the other five major film producers in China, thanks to an unprecedented agreement with China back in 1998), and they invested over a billion dollars in 1999-2001 to update and modernize their factories, but I don't think you can say that Kodak and Lucky are therefore the same. Lucky still makes Lucky film, it is just in a plant that Kodak owns and modernized. However, Kodak also produces Kodak film in China now. Initially, the plan was for it to be Kodak's last link to film as they served the 1.2 billion person Chinese market, which they thought would not upgrade to digital as fast as the rest of the world. They were wrong - China is rapidly adapting straight to digital, and Kodak fired their American/Western managers in China and hired local talent. Now I understand that they import that Chinese-made Kodak film to the West to fill those spaces left by closing US plants.

Sorry, long answer to a simple question - but US-Chinese business relations are a hobby of mine.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Two words, brother: bi cycle! You've got an ideal bike commute distance. Lucky you. Regular unleaded gasoline is about $2.80 per gallon here in New England and I don't look so silly riding my Trek hybrid for errands anymore. This summer I will try to ride to work one day per week (32 miles round trip) as well.

I have a bicycle and I have no problems using it, but at the moment, I don't think I can do so to get to work. I live in a small town, but it is a small town that has a single major thoroughfare that cuts the town down the middle. I live on one side - work is on the other. There are no sidewalks/bike lanes, and it would be very unsafe for me to try to ride with traffic across that street. Once across it would be fine, but no way across. Even if I walked the bike - no sidewalk, no ped signals. Seriously!

I actually tried it on a weekend, just to see if I could do it. My wife followed in the Jeep. She nearly had a heart attack just watching me, and that was on a 'slow traffic' day.

I only wish I could ride to work on a bicycle. I agree that the distance is ideal and God knows I need the exercise.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Avotius]

Hehe 😛

Premium Unleaded is about US $1.80 a liter here...costs about as much as a roll of Lucky B/W film: more shootin', less drivin' 😉

lucky bw film is that much there??? haha...you are all getting ripped off. Here its 5 rmb each for a 36 count, or about 61 cents...

 

[Avotius]

Kodak owns a majority interest in Lucky (as well as a majority or minority interest in the other five major film producers in China, thanks to an unprecedented agreement with China back in 1998), and they invested over a billion dollars in 1999-2001 to update and modernize their factories, but I don't think you can say that Kodak and Lucky are therefore the same. Lucky still makes Lucky film, it is just in a plant that Kodak owns and modernized. However, Kodak also produces Kodak film in China now. Initially, the plan was for it to be Kodak's last link to film as they served the 1.2 billion person Chinese market, which they thought would not upgrade to digital as fast as the rest of the world. They were wrong - China is rapidly adapting straight to digital, and Kodak fired their American/Western managers in China and hired local talent. Now I understand that they import that Chinese-made Kodak film to the West to fill those spaces left by closing US plants.

Sorry, long answer to a simple question - but US-Chinese business relations are a hobby of mine.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

lucky here has already stopped making 120 bw film, I have a hell of a time trying to find it, a roll here and there sometimes. Word is around here that lucky might not be around much longer, and their rival, Era, has stopped all together making film and paper...

 

[bmattock]

lucky bw film is that much there??? haha...you are all getting ripped off. Here its 5 rmb each for a 36 count, or about 61 cents...

There is no major import channel for Lucky film into the US (or Europe as far as I know). So import costs are relatively high. It is made there, it makes sense that it would cost less there.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

lucky here has already stopped making 120 bw film, I have a hell of a time trying to find it, a roll here and there sometimes. Word is around here that lucky might not be around much longer, and their rival, Era, has stopped all together making film and paper...

That's interesting information, since I just imported a carton of 400 rolls of Era. They did not indicate to me that they are not making film anymore, and the rolls have an expiration date of March 2007. However, you may well be right. If so, this does not bode well for B&W film in general.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[raid]

I recently bought Fujicolor 200 in quantity, and the price per 24-exp. roll was about $0.40 shipped. I tried out the film and the results look great.

 

[raid]

I just checked online and found several sources for inexpensive quality film such as AGFA 100 or 400 at about $25 for 100ft. bulk.

 

[jon_flanders]

ride a scooter around here and some guy in a red pick up truck will drive you off the road.

Aw, come on. I live in upstate NY, land of the pickup truck, and I have yet to be driven off the road on my ELECTRIC scooter.

 

[pshinkaw]

I would rather pay more for film than have no film at at all.

-Paul

 

[bmattock]

I just checked online and found several sources for inexpensive quality film such as AGFA 100 or 400 at about $25 for 100ft. bulk.

I presume you mean Agfa APX 100? Good film. Too bad Agfa is out of business, but I'm sure the deals will last until the film is gone.

Presuming one gets about 18 rolls of 36-exposure film out of a 100' roll, that is a per-roll cost of $1.38 per roll, exclusive of shipping cost. You have to purchase the bulk-loading equipment, but it can be reused, and the investment is partially recouped each time you reuse the loader and cartridges until the investment costs are recouped entirely. If you don't reload much, you have to take that into account as well. Also, reloadable cassettes are not unlimited in terms of re-use, they do wear out.

I could do all the math with some basic assumptions regarding how many reloadable rolls of APX 100 or 400 I might shoot in a year, and amortize the costs against that, but it would be guesswork - everyone would get a different answer based on their own real or projected use.

Point being that for many - the savings of loading your own bulk film are less attractive than just buying at the best possible price point for pre-loaded rolls.

I'm not putting bulk loading down - for some it will be a great money-saver. But one cannot automatically assume it will save them money. It can be a false economy.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

I would rather pay more for film than have no film at at all.

-Paul

I'd rather have a free bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Uncle Bill]

Looks like inflation is rearing its ugly head again. Film prices are steady here for now, I did a $50 order from JandC and that should keep me busy for a fair chunk of the Summer. As for gas, I am resigned to the $1 per litre universe in my part of the world. My next job is going to be public transit accessable.

Bill

 

[aterlecki]

Energy price rises alone are enough to account for price rises of film. Ilford have said the recently announced average price rises for their products of 5%-6% are the last rises they envisage for a year. I think this is very reasonable when you consider the wholesale cost of natural gas (which Ilford are heavy users of in their factory) quadrupled in a single day here in the UK only a few weeks ago.

Where people are seeing 40-50% increases I would suggest this is not necessarily from the manufacturer but from other people somewhere in the chain inflating their prices to improve margins.

 

[ywenz]

Yes, who cares about film prices?

Rising Gas price is of the essence here. I drive almost 70 miles a day for work... 🙁

 

[bmattock]

Energy price rises alone are enough to account for price rises of film. Ilford have said the recently announced average price rises for their products of 5%-6% are the last rises they envisage for a year. I think this is very reasonable when you consider the wholesale cost of natural gas (which Ilford are heavy users of in their factory) quadrupled in a single day here in the UK only a few weeks ago.

Where people are seeing 40-50% increases I would suggest this is not necessarily from the manufacturer but from other people somewhere in the chain inflating their prices to improve margins.

Not terribly unusual in any industry, I'd say. I agree that when costs are raised and a reason cited, everyone in the supply chain may tack on a couple of percent on their own - figuring it will be 'hidden' by the advertised price hike by the manufacturer - at least they can point to that if questioned on it.

Price hikes at the supply end disturb established retail price equilibriums and cause up and down see-sawing for a period of time as the retail prices seek a new 'correct' price. Everything is in flux for a period of time, and settles down if the price increases from the manufacturer end there. It is a complex dance.

Sadly, I feel that there is an added pressure from channel partners who may seek to exit the film business or eliminate those items from their supply pipeline, and they may adopt a 'make hay while the sun shines' attitude and adopt higher profit margins, even knowing that this harms the market - they see an endpoint where there wasn't one before and don't mind if they harm their supplier-customer relationships in the meantime. Added to that is less competition from manufacturers who have already exited the marketplace (Agfa, etc) and this can cause additional instability in retail prices.

Hopefully, things will settle down soon, and stay that way for awhile.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've bought 50 rolls or so in the last two weeks, fresh dates, at ~$1.25 a roll. A mox of Kodacolor 200 and B&W C41. If prices doubled, they would get back to where they were 10 years ago.

 

[Avotius]

That's interesting information, since I just imported a carton of 400 rolls of Era. They did not indicate to me that they are not making film anymore, and the rolls have an expiration date of March 2007. However, you may well be right. If so, this does not bode well for B&W film in general.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

no it doesnt, especially since I really love that era stuff. 400 rolls? thats a lot of era, the first year I spent here in china I shot about 200 rolls of the stuff, maybe more, loose track when you buy it in such quantities. Either way enjoy it while you can, used to be able to get it at a lto of shops here, now there is only one and they have to special order it because the guy says they our out.