Scan Dual IV phantom film holder problem.

[sheepdog]

Hi guys.

I've been using my father's Scan Dual IV for the last 3 years or so, and it has been a nice and efficient scanner. The mechanics don't seem to be the most sturdy or tank-like in the world, though, and it creaks and whirrs like a ghost flying an old helicopter around an old attic.. Minds of Minolta and all that. 🙂

Today, ironically enough after I'd been out finishing off a film in order to get it scanned immediately, it finally lost its mind. When I inserted the film holder after starting the software, the scanner spooled the holder about an inch in, and then spooled it back out a bit. Now, this is all normal as far as I can remember, but as it reached the point where the track ends on the film-strip the engine kept running with a horrible noise (well it always was horribly noisy), as if to really get the holder out the door. It keeps running even after I pull the holder out occasionally backing up for a bit, but stops as soon as I close the front door/cover, as that seems to cut the power to the ejection mechanism.

My limited understanding is that there is a sensor somewhere that is supposed to register whether there is a filmholder loaded or not, and that this holder now registers a holder there even though there is none. Anyone know how I convince it otherwise? 😕
If not - anyone know any good repair guys?

 

[sheepdog]

Slight update, only.

The scanner now keeps spinning the cogwheel at all times when the door is set to the 35mm film holder opening. The scanner software aborts its start-up procedure with the "Error 41. Scanner initializing. Remove film holder."-message.

There seems to be no relevant mechanical switches linked to the advance mechanism. There are some springs that press the holder down, keeping it in its track, and then there is the cogwheel that moves it back and forth. If the switch/sensor is connected to the cogwheel, it may very well be broken from use, but could there in stead be a form of optical sensor? Or something else entirely?

Any suggestions are very much appreciated 🙂

 

[dmr]

I had that "horrible noise" once, and it was caused by the film holder not closing completely, thus preventing it from loading smoothly. I don't know if this is related to what you have or not, but this happened to me.

If you search this site there is a reference to a repair service for these scanners.

 

[sheepdog]

Maybe such incidents could have lead to problems such as mine, but at the moment the film holder can be in the next room and the scanner will still think it's loaded.
I found a couple of threads discussing repair services (some in the US were mentioned), and I'll check with Sony here in Norway to see what I would have to expect to pay. Strange that I can't find any repair manuals available anywhere.

 

[Joao]

Hi
My Dual IV behaved erractically in two occasions, unresponsive to any atempts to call it back to the real world. Before throwing it away, I just unninstalled the whole software and installed it again. It worked in both occasions.
It's a very basic solution, but it is worth trying - if you have not done it already...
Good luck
Joao

 

[johannielscom]

I'm with Joao, my Scan Dual IV scanner did some strange tricks as well (the noisy ones too, I might add). Recently I re-installed Windows and decided to give it another try before tossing it out altogether: not a single whimp, everything working as it should. If re-installing the KM Scan Dual IV software does not do the trick, re-installing Windows might. Or, just hook it up to another computer and install the software there!

Good luck, Johan

 

[sheepdog]

Thanks again guys, but the software on the computer doesn't seem to be the problem here. If I power on the scanner (without a USB cable in it, even), the cogwheel spins any time I set the door in the middle position (open for 35mm holder).

The way I have come to understand this, there is a closed loop function on the scanner that checks for the presence of a film holder and starts the eject program if it discovers one. This function is used when opening the door and when the software is initializing the scanner (Dimage Scan now also reports "remove film holder" whenever I start it").

What seems to be the problem, is that the mechanical or optical or at least physical way of checking for the presence of a film holder is damaged (bent lever, shorted switch, dust on sensor etc.) and now reports a holder present when there is none. This being a closed loop, it will continue spinning forever until I somehow manage to convince it that it is in fact empty. I need to find that switch, sensor, lever, or whatever breaks the loop and fix it. A repair manual might have come in handy, but I suspect I will end up with a glass of whiskey, a screwdriver and a list of accepted swear words..

I guess I'll sleep on it one more night. 🙂

 

[Beemermark]

Mine get's confused every once in awhile about where the film holder is. Turn the power off, unplug the USB cable, turn it on, plug the USB cord back in. Reload the software. These are all simple things and a lot cheaper than sending it out for repair to find nothing wrong.

 

[johannielscom]

Mechanical? Then I'd definitely go for the screwdriver, the whiskey and (possibly) the swear words.

My guess: once you've stripped far enough, it should be easy to find a dusty sensor or a bent lever, especially when you slide the film holder in without power-on. I've noticed that sliding the holder out with the power cut does not meet any physical resistance, all cog wheels turn freely.

This might in fact be fairly easy, since no fine-tuning of scanning parts is required

BTW: any educational shot of your progress would be greatly appreciated, it might save the rest of us the swearing and leave us with just the whiskey 😀

 

[sheepdog]

It is done.

No whiskey, as that's not the best idea at 2 in the afternoon, but rather the cumulative effect of a few too many cups of coffee in the morning. Cleared the kitchen table which must be my excuse for a work bench, moved in some lights, q-tips, a roll of toilet paper, window cleaning fluid, jewellers screwdrivers, closed the window to the busy streets and let Coltrane's My Favourite things fill the room.

About 30 minutes later I had found and cleaned a tiny slot in the film holder guide which had a circuit board and some wires attached to the back side. After re-assembling the parts needed to power it up, no horrible noises came from the engine when I opened the front door. Some further re-assembly and a re-install of Dimage Scan Dual4 Utility later, I had scanned my first few images.

Thanks, guys, and especially to Johan for convincing me not to leave it alone in fear of breaking something. I'll have some pictures up later for future reference.

 

[johannielscom]

Glad to have been of any assistance, sheepdog!

You're welcome!

 

[Svitantti]

Thanks for the tips - I have been wondering, since I've had the same problem and quite a lot of it. I have been pulling the power cord off to be able to scan with it, but it is pain in the a**.

I guess I should try the same and maybe also re-install my windows and scanner software (I remember my scanner working ok before installing a newer version of scanner software...)

 

[Svitantti]

Update:
After getting frustrated with having to boot the scanner about once every 6 frames I would scan, I decided to open it and to try find the problem. (I was on a good spree after opening my Gossen Digiflash and calibrating my Mamiya 7 🙂

So I read again sheepdog's post and asked him where to find this optical sensor. He helpfully posted me instructions... The sensor is actually very near the hole so you don't even have to open up the whole machine. I had done it earlier so I got a good look inside the scanner anyway.

The sensor is located on the right side of the film holder guide, near the front door down in a "track". It is just a tiny hole.

I guess my sensor too had a little dust or something like that on it, because often I felt it didnt know if there was a film holder or not. I just cleaned the film holder guide and blowed dust etc. out of the hole of the sensor and after that the machine has worked well (so far not too many frames scanned but something like 20 anyway without any problems at all).

So if you keep having problems like I did, I recommend trying this fix. Maybe first with just some air, then maybe wiping.

 

[danya]

Folks, I owe you some beer.

You saved me a lot of time on searching the sensor.
thanks!