monkeyfist
Established
The ABC scan people are not really keen to answer questions. Have tried it couple of times. But then again, its a repair business.. not a helpdesk.
Shame the file did not work, maybe it got corrupted on its way or something. At least the firmware file from that same batch worked fine on SM5000.
monkeyfist
Established
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2533236&postcount=174
(you need to click the images to view full size)
I have posted some test scans about the RAW thing, and comparing also SM5000 to SM11000.
All my test scans were made using green channel, as it gives best sharpness on pretty much any scanner when scanning B&W.
But i assume my Flextight scans had sharpening, as i learned afterwards that you need to put sharpening to negative to get rid of it. Even the 3ff raw includes sharpening.
Also in Minolta5400 i found too late that there was a RAW option that output unsharpned scans. Damn these idiots for force-feeding sharpening.
The SM5000 is a great machine, even though you could not get 16 bit raw out of it. These machines are so good, that it does not matter much. You can see that @ 5000dpi they are pretty much equal even if i use raw on SM11000.
In color, SM5000 was actually better. As on it, RGB channels were equally sharp. On SM11000 they are not, at least on my machine.
See here SM5000 compared to Flextight P2
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2439130&postcount=93
And my P2 was tweaked all the way to get max sharpness. It compared almost 1:1 to new X1.
Gilles78
Member
Hello Monkeyfist
Thank you for this comparison between SM11K and P2, very interesting ...
I also use both. but we must be aware that the mechanical settings on the SM11K are very delicate and can lead to very positive results or the reverse.
On a SM11K, with the rotation speed of the drum (heavy and long), it is easy to get drum oscillations and during the scanning, focus could be less good.
P2 is slow and don't rotate completly, safe ...
You wrote :
"I think this is it, two of the best scanners that can be bought with reasonable money. Though the P2 needs a small modification to reach this level of sharpness. Still i think Flextight is the best scanner out there, shame it can't handle 8x10".
Yes, it's right
I am interested to know what you changed the P2 to improve this one ?
Thank you for this comparison between SM11K and P2, very interesting ...
I also use both. but we must be aware that the mechanical settings on the SM11K are very delicate and can lead to very positive results or the reverse.
On a SM11K, with the rotation speed of the drum (heavy and long), it is easy to get drum oscillations and during the scanning, focus could be less good.
P2 is slow and don't rotate completly, safe ...
You wrote :
"I think this is it, two of the best scanners that can be bought with reasonable money. Though the P2 needs a small modification to reach this level of sharpness. Still i think Flextight is the best scanner out there, shame it can't handle 8x10".
Yes, it's right
I am interested to know what you changed the P2 to improve this one ?
Kamph
Established
QCscan reported this today: "Info: Warning: Line White Calibration yielded low values red,green,blue 75 72 68 percent". I recently swapped my transmission lamp with the reflective one in order to continue scanning (the transmission lamp died), could this indicate that this lamp is dying too, or do I've a bigger problem at my hands?
Also, can a dying lamp affect sharpness? Could that be the reason why my scanner fails at producing grain sharp scans on Provia 100F?
Can anyone send me a service manual?
Also, can a dying lamp affect sharpness? Could that be the reason why my scanner fails at producing grain sharp scans on Provia 100F?
Can anyone send me a service manual?
calebarchie
Established
Here you go
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fha54z9cokj2f3/ScanMate%20Field%20Service%20Manual%20Calebarchie%202016.pdf?dl=0
Hopefully this one won't go AWOL.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fha54z9cokj2f3/ScanMate%20Field%20Service%20Manual%20Calebarchie%202016.pdf?dl=0
Hopefully this one won't go AWOL.
Kamph
Established
Thank you!
monkeyfist
Established
Hello Monkeyfist
Thank you for this comparison between SM11K and P2, very interesting ...
I also use both. but we must be aware that the mechanical settings on the SM11K are very delicate and can lead to very positive results or the reverse.
On a SM11K, with the rotation speed of the drum (heavy and long), it is easy to get drum oscillations and during the scanning, focus could be less good.
P2 is slow and don't rotate completly, safe ...
You wrote :
"I think this is it, two of the best scanners that can be bought with reasonable money. Though the P2 needs a small modification to reach this level of sharpness. Still i think Flextight is the best scanner out there, shame it can't handle 8x10".
Yes, it's right
I am interested to know what you changed the P2 to improve this one ?
On P2 it also extremely important to manually calibrate focus for every scan size, using preset with correct focus elevation. Autofocus/calibration will get you so-so results on both scanners.
I also switched the internal color gel filter to a proper multicoated glass filter.
Also note that the P2 scan example included sharpening, i did not know that to disable it i need to actually put a negative value on it.
Currently i can see that i can get much better prints from SM11000, as i can print at 600dpi for about the same size as i could from P2 @ 300dpi.
This really makes a difference, as 600dpi finally put grain in my prints.
Kamph
Established
I got in touch with ABC-scan, who was kind enough to respond. Apparently a lot of people have been asking them about the 16bit Raw lately.
They are aware of the 16bit raw problem which they think is software related, and will look into it in time. For now they recommend using 16bit tiff with all settings turned off, which should give the same result as Raw.
I wonder, do anyone else, besides monkeyfist and I, see the slight blurring when using other settings than Raw?
At the very least it's good to know that they are aware of the problem and thinking about a possible solution.
They are aware of the 16bit raw problem which they think is software related, and will look into it in time. For now they recommend using 16bit tiff with all settings turned off, which should give the same result as Raw.
I wonder, do anyone else, besides monkeyfist and I, see the slight blurring when using other settings than Raw?
At the very least it's good to know that they are aware of the problem and thinking about a possible solution.
meloV8
Established
16bit tiff add blur to scans, and worse shadow detail. Need 16 bit raw for editing? Scan 8bit raw and convert to 16bit in Photoshop.
My SM 4000 after and before cleaning/adjusting :
My SM 4000 after and before cleaning/adjusting :
calebarchie
Established
16bit tiff add blur to scans, and worse shadow detail. Need 16 bit raw for editing? Scan 8bit raw and convert to 16bit in Photoshop.
My SM 4000 after and before cleaning/adjusting :
So the SM4000 does not have the 16-bit raw problem?
Gilles78
Member
Hi Monkeyfist, thanks ! I understand... but ...
You wrote : "I also switched the internal color gel filter to a proper multicoated glass filter."
when I dismount my P2, I do not remember seeing a filter or gelatin ...
Where is it situated ?
Is it a circular screwing filter ?
Regarding SM11K I tried to scan with the mode "TIFF RAW 16B" but the result was very strange, very dark image, and heavy USM in the picture, strong contrast, all this was not neutral at all.
Is this the same on your side?
You wrote : "I also switched the internal color gel filter to a proper multicoated glass filter."
when I dismount my P2, I do not remember seeing a filter or gelatin ...
Where is it situated ?
Is it a circular screwing filter ?
Regarding SM11K I tried to scan with the mode "TIFF RAW 16B" but the result was very strange, very dark image, and heavy USM in the picture, strong contrast, all this was not neutral at all.
Is this the same on your side?
Gilles78
Member
Hi, good job !16bit tiff add blur to scans, and worse shadow detail. Need 16 bit raw for editing? Scan 8bit raw and convert to 16bit in Photoshop.
My SM 4000 after and before cleaning/adjusting :
What do what did you clean?
Encoder internal wheel ? ( Drum motor )
Did you dismount the encoder for cleaning inside ?
Gilles78
Member
@ Monkeyfist
For a better sharpness, and manual focus adjustements,
do you scan with emulsion up or down ? ( with P2 and SM11K )
User manual say emulsion down for the both.
But with emulsion up and manual adjustement, emulsion see the sensor directly without additional layer ( gelatin )
For a better sharpness, and manual focus adjustements,
do you scan with emulsion up or down ? ( with P2 and SM11K )
User manual say emulsion down for the both.
But with emulsion up and manual adjustement, emulsion see the sensor directly without additional layer ( gelatin )
meloV8
Established
I have SM3000 and SM4000. Both dont work in 16bit raw mode, only 8bit raw.
For cleaning encoder, a dismount metal cover from encoder and little electronic board. Clean plastik disk and optic sensors, but i think this is not big deal. I also clean main sensor lens, calibrating light tube, cleaning light bulbs connection, dichroic filters, reclibration of encoder position ( unscrew 3 bolt, and twisting ), lubrication all moving parts motors screws, and i make all calibrations in service program in serial connection. Main improvements is lower flare effect and lower "wow and flutter". The encoders in Scanmate scanners are realy a weak point.
For cleaning encoder, a dismount metal cover from encoder and little electronic board. Clean plastik disk and optic sensors, but i think this is not big deal. I also clean main sensor lens, calibrating light tube, cleaning light bulbs connection, dichroic filters, reclibration of encoder position ( unscrew 3 bolt, and twisting ), lubrication all moving parts motors screws, and i make all calibrations in service program in serial connection. Main improvements is lower flare effect and lower "wow and flutter". The encoders in Scanmate scanners are realy a weak point.
monkeyfist
Established
You can not actually convert 8bit to 16bit.. .it's just 8bit of information spread to 16bit file..
The 12 bits you get from SM5000 is 4096 colors, compared to 256 colors of 8bit.
14bits from SM11000 is already over 16000 colors.
You do have more room for the calculated tones in 16bit files when you edit, but i do not know is it smart at all. Better to use the 16bit tiff file and get all the colors from the scan.
meloV8
Established
In my test no. In tiff 16bit mode i have worst shadow detail, blured image. This 16bit TIFF is simply destructive mode for overal scan quality. I scan 8bit Raw, then go to Photoshop and convert to 16 bit mode for editing and save file. Rest i do in Silverfast in HDR 48 bit mode.
I bet, that Color Quartet simply scan to 8 bit, add blur for "wow and flutter" and saved to 16 bit tiff without any 16 bit data from scanner.
Gilles78
Member
Thanks
Yes, I know that the encoder is a sensitive point ...
My SM11K is in good condition and regularly controlled. I do the same maintenance you do.
Except "dichroic filters, reclibration of encoder position ( unscrew 3 bolt, and twisting ), I've never done that.
My SM11K was in good shape i when I bought it and just little used.
Could you explain with more details how do you do for " reclibration of encoder position ( unscrew 3 bolt, and twisting )"
? This is a very interesting point ...
It is alson interesting to check the eccentricity of the coupling between the motor shaft and encoder.
Check that the encoder does not vibrate during scanning, it can vibrate the drum with a few 1/100 mm
If yes, it is a difficult problem to solve
meloV8
Established
Thanks
Yes, I know that the encoder is a sensitive point ...
My SM11K is in good condition and regularly controlled. I do the same maintenance you do.
Except "dichroic filters, reclibration of encoder position ( unscrew 3 bolt, and twisting ), I've never done that.
My SM11K was in good shape i when I bought it and just little used.
Could you explain with more details how do you do for " reclibration of encoder position ( unscrew 3 bolt, and twisting )"
? This is a very interesting point ...
It is alson interesting to check the eccentricity of the coupling between the motor shaft and encoder.
Check that the encoder does not vibrate during scanning, it can vibrate the drum with a few 1/100 mm
If yes, it is a difficult problem to solve
Well, i had problem with Zero Point Vertical. In full preview i had drum black line on half portion of preview window. Manual say that must be adjusted dc motor, but i make adjust on connetion encoder with motor. I make horizontal mark line, and unscrew 3 bolts, then i can twisting encoder, and change calibration. I thing this is the most important, to minimalization "wow and flutter" effect. In my case it works fine. Maybe unscrewing and changing position make beter aligments for encoder and motor.
I dont have photo of my scanner, so forgive me to borrow photo from site http://www.terrapinphoto.com/drumscansaga/
Attachments
Gilles78
Member
Thanks a lot meloV8
I also read the service manual ( 5.6 A - adjustement zero point vertical ) and your method, i will try to understand better
I don't need to do this for the moment i think, but may be one day and i would like to be able to do that myself, if needed.
Thanks again
I also read the service manual ( 5.6 A - adjustement zero point vertical ) and your method, i will try to understand better
I don't need to do this for the moment i think, but may be one day and i would like to be able to do that myself, if needed.
Thanks again
meloV8
Established
I found here a lot of help, so I'm glad that I can help in something.