jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Note that unless things have changed since the last time I shopped (and I don't believe they have) NONE of the "image repair" capabilities (Digital ICE, Grain Dissolver, etc.) of ANY film scanner work with silver-based b&w film!
The reason is that they rely on infrared transmission to identify defects and distinguish them from actual details of the image. (A dark spot that transmits the same amount of IR as its surroundings is most likely a small detail in the image itself; a dark spot that doesn't transmit IR is probably a speck of dirt on the film.) Silver-based films, having a metallic emulsion rather than one made up of semi-transparent dyes, transmit so little infrared that the IR detection can't work properly.
There may be some scanners that offer grain-reduction algorithms that don't depend on IR detection, but these would have to work the same way as after-the-fact filters (e.g. Neat Image or Noise Ninja.)
Moral of this story: Before you buy a scanner for b&w based on its image-repair features, read all the documentation VERY CAREFULLY to make sure those features will work with silver-based films!
The reason is that they rely on infrared transmission to identify defects and distinguish them from actual details of the image. (A dark spot that transmits the same amount of IR as its surroundings is most likely a small detail in the image itself; a dark spot that doesn't transmit IR is probably a speck of dirt on the film.) Silver-based films, having a metallic emulsion rather than one made up of semi-transparent dyes, transmit so little infrared that the IR detection can't work properly.
There may be some scanners that offer grain-reduction algorithms that don't depend on IR detection, but these would have to work the same way as after-the-fact filters (e.g. Neat Image or Noise Ninja.)
Moral of this story: Before you buy a scanner for b&w based on its image-repair features, read all the documentation VERY CAREFULLY to make sure those features will work with silver-based films!
GeneW
Veteran
I own a Minolta 5400 first-gen scanner as well and like Nikon Bob am very happy with it. One of its features is a diffuser that can swing over the light source in effect making the scanner more like a diffusion enlarger. With Minolta software this only happens when you use ICE, but with VueScan it can be invoked independently, reducing grain and grain aliasing. Actually I haven't noticed grain aliasing to be too bad with the 5400.
Gene
Gene
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Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
vincentbenoit said:
Hi Vincent,
I know this site tho I had not read the new test of the 5400 II. Made me thoughtful that after some hours of work the max res went down to 2900, and first after it was turned off and had cooled down the full res was back ?
BTW did not know you speak German ! Not bad, I could not read such an article in French without a dictionary.
Best,
Bertram
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
formal said:
David,
can film flatness get a real prob with the 5400II or do you get them always flat enuff for edge to edge sharpness ?
Thanks,
Bertram
vincentbenoit
télémétrique argentique
I know that, and I don't expect to use any of the image enhancement features such as digital ICE. However the "Grain Dissolver" option I was refering to is basically a light source diffuser. It can be used with silver-based emulsions. (See GeneW's post below).jlw said:
Cheers
Vincent
vincentbenoit
télémétrique argentique
Yep, I will definitely stay away from this scanner. If I decide to go for a Minolta it'll be the 5400 I.Bertram2 said:
Hehe... I spent almost four years in the German-speaking part of Switzerland before moving to the UK, so yes, my German is not too bad.Bertram2 said:
Regards
Vincent
vincentbenoit
télémétrique argentique
BTW jlw, I think you can get such a light source diffuser for your Canon 4000: http://www.scanhancer.com/index.php?art=22&men=3
This might help with your grain aliasing issues.
This might help with your grain aliasing issues.
gelmir
Established
I've got an idea : why don't we set up a scan database with the same negative that we could pass to the people with different scanners ? Of course, the process must be rigorously specified (software version, dpi, usm, no retouching, traditionnal film or new one, etc.) and the results should be post somewhere at 100%.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
vincentbenoit said:
Sorry I have nothing to compare the build quality to but it is OK for me then again I am not a heavy user. I have had no problems with it so far. I leave "Grain Dissolver" on all the time on the basis that it can't hurt. If you scan at 5400 for a 300 dpi output you can print a 16X24 with no trouble.
Bob
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
vincentbenoit said:
How about splitting the budget for a cheap Minolta Dualscan IV and a good Epson flatbed ?
I have a friend who is quite contented with the B&W results of the small Minolta scanner and the additional flatbed opens the door to MF neg and print scans, a very interesting issue too ?
Alles Gute !
Bertram
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Bertram2 said:Looks great, Bob !! I also heard the story of beeing I better than II, tho it is slow with ICE as it is said. What time does it need to scan a s lide at full res with ICE and what at 2700 dpi?
Thanks !
Bertram
Thanks. At full rez and all the bells and whistles on the scan takes about 8 minutes and I have not done any at 2700 but I will try later and see. I think the biggest thing with this scanner is to have lots of RAM. I started with 512 and went to 1 gig for a big improvement in scan times. I now have 2 gig and the scan times are again faster.
Bob
vincentbenoit
télémétrique argentique
Thanks Bob, good to hear that. One more question: does the film holder let you scan the entire frame without cropping a bit of the picture at the edges, as many scanners do?Nikon Bob said:
Cheers
Vincent
Roger Hicks
Veteran
jlw said:
Scan the wet print (once it's dried) on a cheap flatbed. Still wipes the floor with anything else.
Cheers,
Roger
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
vincentbenoit said:
Fairly close to the entire frame I would say. The grain disolve was only for colour.
Bob
formal
***
5400 Ii
5400 Ii
I'm not experienced with scanning and I've only used the 5400 II, but I have had no problems with negatives being held flat and edge to edge sharpness looks okay.
I'm on holidays for the next few weeks, but if you want I can post some examples.
David
5400 Ii
Bertram2 said:
I'm not experienced with scanning and I've only used the 5400 II, but I have had no problems with negatives being held flat and edge to edge sharpness looks okay.
I'm on holidays for the next few weeks, but if you want I can post some examples.
David
formal
***
gelmir said:
Count me in.
vincentbenoit
télémétrique argentique
So, I got a second-hand but near-mint Canon CanoScan FS4000US at a price that suits my amateur budget . The scanner seems to work alright with VueScan. Scanning at 4000 dpi in 16-bit mode is actually much less slower than I expected. Scans are very sharp and nice tonalities can be obtained by applying tone curves in Photoshop. Some degree of grain aliasing seems to be occuring with pushed Tri-X negs, but the effect is not consistent from frame to frame; in any case, I need to gain more experience with the scanning process and to make prints of various sizes in order to assess to what extent this might be an issue, but I'm not too worried about it.
Anyway, thanks to all who contributed to this thread. Watch my RFF gallery, it sure will be growing now that I have a decent scanner.
Cheers
Vincent
. The scanner seems to work alright with VueScan. Scanning at 4000 dpi in 16-bit mode is actually much less slower than I expected. Scans are very sharp and nice tonalities can be obtained by applying tone curves in Photoshop. Some degree of grain aliasing seems to be occuring with pushed Tri-X negs, but the effect is not consistent from frame to frame; in any case, I need to gain more experience with the scanning process and to make prints of various sizes in order to assess to what extent this might be an issue, but I'm not too worried about it.Anyway, thanks to all who contributed to this thread. Watch my RFF gallery, it sure will be growing now that I have a decent scanner.
Cheers
Vincent
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
vincentbenoit said:So, I got a second-hand but near-mint Canon CanoScan FS4000US at a price that suits my amateur budget
Cheers
Vincent
Wisely chosen! It's really a good scanner, a friend owns one and his pics prove it.
I am looking forward to some new scans !
Best,
Bertram