Scanning with a digital camera

I am really enjoying learning more about people using a DSLR to make copies of film negatives and slides. I am assembling the equipment i need to do the same and hope to have good results in time.

However, is there any chance we could stop saying 'scan' with reference to a DSLR copy of a negative or slide? It's not a scan. It's a photograph of something, in this case another photograph.

It would be a scan if you were using a scanner, which you're not. Scanners make scans. Cameras make photographs, images, visual recordings, but not scans.

It's just inaccurate and somewhat grating. Like when a younger person refers to vinyl records as 'vinyls'. The plural of vinyl is vinyl when referring to records.

Sorry guys. I try not to say anything but it sets my teeth on edge.
 
I saw one of these at a local camera show a while back. I forget what they were asking for it, since I did not have an interest at the time.

I'm wondering if a DSLR (or in my case, a Fuji mirrorless) could be substituted for the included SLR, which I assume is some kind of a Pentax body.

49920-screenshot-from-20181127-165854-m.png
 
dmr said:
I saw one of these at a local camera show a while back. I forget what they were asking for it, since I did not have an interest at the time.

I'm wondering if a DSLR (or in my case, a Fuji mirrorless) could be substituted for the included SLR, which I assume is some kind of a Pentax body.

49920-screenshot-from-20181127-165854-m.png
Click to expand...

I would suspect that it could. I saw one for sale on an auction site recently, did not bid, but it was similar to the one you are showing above - had a Nikon body though, which is why I presume the bidding got so high.

You can also buy something modern and made for the purpose, but it's not cheap.

http://www.filmtoaster.photography/

I presume the Film Toaster works very well, and if I were better heeled, I might consider one myself. Alas, budget rears its ugly head.

The requirements to get into this type of image copying are fairly simple, it seems.

You need a camera - the higher quality, the better, of course.

You need something to copy - negative or positive film, one presumes.

You need a way to focus on the film - this will work best, one presumes, with a high-quality lens, probably macro, and perhaps a so-called process lens or other type of flat-field lens designed for exactly this kind of thing - copying flat objects.

You need a way to light the image from behind. You'll want to make the light bright, diffuse, and cool enough to not cause physical damage due to heat to the film itself.

None of this is new - in the olden days, people used 'slide copiers' attached to their film cameras to do this kind of copying, but they were copying film to film - from slide film primarily.

This would still work with some caveats. First, many DSLR cameras are not full-frame, so an attachment designed for a 35mm slide to a 35mm film is 1:1 and a APS-C or M4/3 sensor isn't that. So the lens used would have to change, or the distance between the film being copied and the camera.

At the simplest, I have seen folks simply use a tripod with a DSLR attached, a macro lens, and a piece of film on top of a phone or tablet with the screen turned white, like browsing to a blank web page kind of thing. Some have said that worked pretty well for them, others have said it's not bright enough for dense negatives or it lets the 'dots' of the device used for lighting shine through.

Some have used a shoebox with a flash inside kind of thing. Sync the flash to the camera and you should get lots of diffuse light, one suspects.

I think it's a matter of experimentation what works best for you.

There are a ton of youtube videos on various ways to do this, and lots of web pages. Seems everyone has a different take on it.

Bottom line, though, the basics are still the basics. You're going to shine a light through a piece of film, and photograph that. Like an old fashioned slide projector in reverse - the projected image gets photographed by a DSLR instead of being projected onto a screen.
 
dmr said:
I saw one of these at a local camera show a while back. I forget what they were asking for it, since I did not have an interest at the time.
Click to expand...

this setup would somehow be similar to the Leica BEEON but with the
lightsource already included.

My current setup is a Kaiser RS 2 XA with a Kaiser Slimlite Plano, a Lomo 120 Digitaliza and a self-made mask out of thick cardboard which works very well :)
The budget needed for this was around 220€*(with the RS 2 XA bought used). I would not bother to spend so much on the Film Toaster but rather invest in a better Macro-Lens. But this setup has a very good cost / result ratio.

Conversions are done with Negative Lab Pro, which I can highly recommend to try! Very good starting point and very intuitiv color controls :)
The last example by Huss is a beautiful demonstration of NLP.

What really helps is to aim for a proper exposed negative, so keep that histogram to the right (without clipping!)

bmattock said:
However, is there any chance we could stop saying 'scan' with reference to a DSLR copy of a negative or slide? It's not a scan. It's a photograph of something, in this case another photograph.
Click to expand...

what term would you suggest? :) was already looking to differentiate the method more to a real Scanner-Scan but as a non-native speaker it's pretty hard to do so
 
Sorry - need to work out how to properly post images. I used to use my D700 but switched to the A6000 controlled remotely via an ipad. Same Nikkor 60mm 2.8AFD via adapter. Little Kaiser slimlite plano lightpad.

UPDATE: Just tried Neg Lab Pro and concur it seems to be great. I think also the instructional video is great for anyone who wants to digitise their negs, whether you use NLP or not.
 

Attachments

  • rff-010.jpg
    rff-010.jpg
    127.7 KB · Views: 0
predicolous said:
this setup would somehow be similar to the Leica BEEON but with the
lightsource already included.

My current setup is a Kaiser RS 2 XA with a Kaiser Slimlite Plano, a Lomo 120 Digitaliza and a self-made mask out of thick cardboard which works very well :)
The budget needed for this was around 220€*(with the RS 2 XA bought used). I would not bother to spend so much on the Film Toaster but rather invest in a better Macro-Lens. But this setup has a very good cost / result ratio.

Conversions are done with Negative Lab Pro, which I can highly recommend to try! Very good starting point and very intuitiv color controls :)
The last example by Huss is a beautiful demonstration of NLP.

What really helps is to aim for a proper exposed negative, so keep that histogram to the right (without clipping!)



what term would you suggest? :) was already looking to differentiate the method more to a real Scanner-Scan but as a non-native speaker it's pretty hard to do so
Click to expand...

First up - I reckon a good word for the process is "Digitise" Because we are taking a piece for film and making a digital file from it (BTW - I don't like calling film "analogue" but that's a whole 'nother story)


Your setup is pretty similar to mine! Kaiser Slimline plano and the Lomo 120 holder. Micro Nikkor 60 2.8 D on an old enlarger stand.

I have just tried NLP and early results great! I was doing the whole thing manually in LR inverting individual curves and it was pretty tricky and not repeatable. Watching the NLP video is great for anyone who is digitising - whether they use NLP or not I'd say; heaps of good info in there
 
bmattock said:
I presume the Film Toaster works very well, and if I were better heeled, I might consider one myself. Alas, budget rears its ugly head.
Click to expand...

They had a Film Toaster booth at Photo Plus a couple of months ago. They have a New Improved model with bellows now but the prices are just totally out of line. They did have a good repertoire of rebuttals when I questioned the price (cost of a good film scanner, cost of your time, etc.) but still, it's a fancy box with a light in it.

I figure their business model is to sell a few at a high markup rather than to sell many at a lower markup.

I would also have to get an appropriate prime copy lens $$$$$.

Now something else has come into the picture (pun intended).

I recently joined a local "Technology Cooperative" (Do Space) and I'll be taking a class in 3D printing after the first of the year. One benefit of Do Space membership is that you can use any of a few different 3D printers paying only the cost of materials. I've seen some of the widgets that people have 3D printed there and they are impressive!

I'm going to hold off on this project until I take the class, but it looks like I could fairly easily 3D print a light box and a holder thing which would center the 35mm frame and be much like, yes, the Film Toaster.
 
DavidX said:
Glad I found this thread - Looking forward to trying NLP! This is something that has been driving me nuts as I like to show the edges of the neg.
Click to expand...

What works for me with NLP in Lightroom:
- Eyedropper the unexposed margin
- Crop to the image area
- Run NLP with it's full automation, adjust color/tonality
- Apply... Often I'll re-invoke NLP, adjust again, Apply. You can repeat this.
- Now expand the crop to include whatever film margin you wish
 
ColSebastianMoran said:
What works for me with NLP in Lightroom:
- Eyedropper the unexposed margin
- Crop to the image area
- Run NLP with it's full automation, adjust color/tonality
- Apply... Often I'll re-invoke NLP, adjust again, Apply. You can repeat this.
- Now expand the crop to include whatever film margin you wish
Click to expand...

exactly my process as well. After expanding I sometimes open NLP again and create a TIFF copy if I want to do further adjustments :)
 
What drives me nuts is spotting for dust/scratches. Some of my negatives from mini-labs have a lot. Digital ICE with IR channel would do it with a scanner. What's the best solution for dust/scratch when we are doing camera-scans?
- Polaroid Dust and Scratch (if I can find an old machine to run it on)
- Photoshop dust/scratch filter?
- Silverfast SRDx?
 
Film Toaster looks like a good option and if everything is top quality and built to tight tollerances, then price seems reasonable. It is sold to a very small market and its use is quite specialized. That combination is always much more expensive. It seems reasonable to compare this to what other pre-packaged scan systems might cost. If you can find a new quality film scanner.
Too expensive and a market should yield a less expensive alternative.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom