school me in the point and shoots (film)

[emraphoto]

while recently pondering creative directions I was thinking about the images I am super happy with (that I have taken). a common thread began to appear... point and shoots.

so to cut out the boring middle bit, that involved me looking at 35ti's and Klasse w's and cut to the chase.

I need some recommendations. autofocus film point and shoot. 24-40mm range. a way of organizing zero shutter lag (pre-focus, snap mode whatever) and a decent finder.

I used a rich gr1 for a long time and know it well. high on the list. prefer a bit of heft versus the super tiny pocket version.

zero shutter lag.

guans folks

 

[kxl]

I had a 35TI, and didn't care much for it. The images were okay, but it just fet awkward in my hands.

Never even seen a Klasse W (or an S), but from what I've read and seen online (because if it's on the internet, it must be true), looks like a winner... except for the price.

I'd also have to throw the Hexar AF in the mix, especially if stealth is important.

 

[RayPA]

The Hexar AF, Leica Mini-lux, offer heft and very nice lenses. I continue to lust after a Contax T3.


/
edit: sorry suggested a few non-AF cameras.

 

[Quinn Porter]

In terms of small point and shoots, I was only able to find two that had an acceptable shutter lag, the GR1 and the T3. I generally prefer 35mm, but the T3's shutter button had poor feel, so I sold it and kept the GR1.

 

[elmer3.5]

Hi, i had a contax t3, 35mm f2.8 carl zeiss sonnar lens. Superb.

Very small, up to 1/1200 sec, precise fast AF, manual aperture, manual focus, several flash settings, long battery life.

At last sold it in favor of an leica X1

 

[Spyro]

With the nikon 35ti or 28ti or the Contax G's I never found a way to minimise shutter lag. Even with the focus distance manually dialled in, when you press the shutter button the lens goes back and forth before settling to the desired focus distance. Half press might work if you're happy with that. The hexar AF is the best in that regard, prefocused it has no shutter lag whatsoever. Also AF will always catch instantly without hunting even in the lowest light imaginable. It ****s allover any DSLR in the no-hunting department. VF is very good, almost Leica M quality but has no focus info other than a rough distance scale (which can prove surprisingly useful). I dont know exactly what is your definition of p&s, but if it is mainly size keep in mind that the Hexar is exactly the size of a Leica M + Summicron 35mm although significantly lighter.

I dont know much about the Ricoh, Klasse and Contax T's but the form factor is very interesting.

 

[bensyverson]

As someone who has spent way too much time on this dilemma, take it from me: start by figuring out what compromises you're willing to make, and work backward to find the camera. If you start with the camera, you'll just talk yourself into something that's not right.

I also think it's healthy to question your need for a P&S in the first place... For $300, you can get the tiny Canon Rebel Ti with 35mm f/2. Its ergonomics, AF and AE obviously blow away any P&S ever made, and the combo weighs just 620g with film and batteries—not even 100g over the Hexar AF. Sure, that Contax T3 is nice, but is it too nice to stick in your pocket? If so, it'll be in the case. If it's in a case in your bag, it's not really any more convenient than an SLR.

 

[Jamie123]

I had a Nikon 35Ti for a while but didn't like it. Too slow, too heavy and bulky, and I didn't really need the good meter.

At the end I just came back to my Olympus Mju-II. Small, light and very fast. Misses focus every once in a while and you can't dial in exposure compensation but the lens is great. I also have a Yashica T4 but I don't use it often as the Olympus is just as good. Sure, I wouldn't mind a Contax T3 but other than that I'm pretty happy with what I have.

 

[monochromejrnl]

Ricoh GR1/s/v is the one P&S I never ever considered selling... unfortunately, I lost it on the side of Mt. Kilimanjaro (fell out of my bag)... all the other contenders are good (T3 best lens of the bunch), T4 Super (cheap and excellent lens but no manual over ride), Klasse (big) etc...

What sets the GR1s/v apart is it has the best ergonomics of virtually any camera (digital or film) for one handed, quick grabs. The lens is stunning and with a 28mm and the ability to set the focus to hyperfocal distance the shutter release is near instantaneous since there is no need for the camera to focus.

I would have replaced my GR1S if it were for how high prices got all of a sudden. I paid $200 for mine 5 years ago but when I lost it two years ago it was selling for $400!

 

[emraphoto]

how is the latency/lag of the klasse cameras? can one prefocus or set up focus distances?

I REALLY appreciate the advice folks.

 

[Tim Gray]

I had a Oly Stylus Epic. Cool little camera and didn't cost too much. Unfortunately it advanced frames inconsistently which led to overlaps about 30% of the time. After I got my GR1 I never used the Oly again. If I found one for a good price though I'd probably buy it though.

The Hexar AF always looked cool if you want more heft, but I'd just rather take out my M. I'm guessing I'll never have another high end P&S other than my GR1. I always thought the Minolta TC-1 would be fun to use, but it's more expensive than the GR1, and I've already got one of those.

To be honest, I don't use the GR1 as much as I should. I usually take it out when I'm not planning on shooting anything, as a just in case camera. It fits comfortably in my jeans pocket or in a coat pocket and I can just forget about it. For serious work, I find that about 10% of the time it focuses on the wrong thing, so I tend towards my M for things like that. But, I have gotten some great pictures from it, and for the price I paid for it, I'm very happy. I have no lust for any of the other high end P&Ss, like the Minilux, the Contaxes, the Nikons, etc... Maybe the TC-1, but that's it.

I say the GR1.

 

[slm]

If you can change the requirements to focus, point and shoot, I highly recommend a Minolta Hi-matic E

Cheers
Steven

 

[tokengirl]

how is the latency/lag of the klasse cameras? can one prefocus or set up focus distances?

I REALLY appreciate the advice folks.

It's a really quick little camera. The autofocus is at least as good as my Canon G10, maybe better. Manual focus is menu driven, just set the distance and go. I tend to set the distance at 2 meters and stop down to f16, and just shoot away happily. There is no shutter lag to speak of when you prefocus manually.

 

[bensyverson]

how is the latency/lag of the klasse cameras? can one prefocus or set up focus distances?

I'm not sure about the Klasse, but I know that the Hexar AF focuses with a half-press, and there's virtually no lag after that. The Contax T3 can be set up the same way.

 

[Warren T.]

I had a Hexar AF and I sometimes wish I never sold it. It is virtually the same size and heft of a Leica M, but very different operationally. The Hexar works well as a P&S. When I had mine, I would often use the pre-focus technique to reduce lag time, and it worked well that way. The Hexar AF meets your requirements: AF, fantastic 35mm lens, potential for zero lag, excellent viewfinder, and a bit-of-heft (vs. pocket sized). On top of these features, the Hexar AF also has auto-wind, power-rewind, AE, and ultra-silent operation (silent mode). So although it looks and feels like a M, it is operationally very different.

 

[DougFord]

I’ve owned, at various times the Contax T3, Hexar AF, Leica CM & Ricoh GR1v.
They all have their foibles. Work-arounds are the order of the day. Which one ticks you off the least wins out.
Notice the aperture/shutter speed relationship in their specs. Especially ricohs; all shutter speeds are not available to all aperture settings.
I personally find the T3 as the best compromise of size/performance among the cameras mentioned. Zone focus or ‘manual focus’ lessens shutter lag. One button AFL (very accurate spot focus), lets you escape ‘manual/zone focus’ mode quickly to establish a new focus point on the fly. However, getting into the menu and setting a ‘manual focus’ distance is a PITA.
The bottom line – you need to try these for yourself to see which one offers the least frustrating experience. 😛

 

[FrankS]

Sometimes a manual exposure, manual focus camera is faster and easier to use than an auto P+S. Rollei T/S, Canonet, CL, CLE, Barnack Leica

 

[emraphoto]

that is indeed true Frank. the thing is, these days I am getting a little tired of cameras in general. tired of them hanging off me, tired of meters and tired of thinking of them.

I don't want to focus, i don't want to calculate or anything else. I want to engage with people and have the camera eat up as little of that time/ effort as possible. for me the magic is in that dialogue and more and more these days it has little to do with cameras.

disclaimer - this is only to be regarded as my own lunacy/ramblings versus anything resembling a doctrine.

 

[emraphoto]

how about the t2? can one work around the lens moving to focus?

 

[shyoon]

As someone who has spent way too much time on this dilemma, take it from me: start by figuring out what compromises you're willing to make, and work backward to find the camera. If you start with the camera, you'll just talk yourself into something that's not right.

This rings very true for me. Every point and shoot has their own compromises: T3/28TI/TC-1 is too expensive, GR1s is way too loud, Stylus Epic doesn't offer enough manual controls etc.

At the moment, the Contax T2 is doing it for me. Sure, there's some things I'd like to change, but for the most part, it's pretty darn fantastic. Seems to be going down in price, too.