dfoo
Well-known
Anyone read this review? What did you make of the aperture clicking issue he reports? I really want this camera but without that issue being fixed I'm a bit of a fence sitter...
Sean Reids review?
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gavinlg
Veteran
Honestly, it reeks of a camera reviewer that's trying to be as thorough as possible, but coming off as silly. I highly highly doubt you'll hear it in any but the most extreme quiet situations, and even then there's no way the subject would hear it. If I put my ear right up to the lens on my x100 I can hear that doing it too.
Exactly how loud can aperture blades closing possibly be?
Exactly how loud can aperture blades closing possibly be?
gavinlg
Veteran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXmdXdw7wkQ
Keep in mind the camera is directly next to the lens, in a silent room, which means that the gain on the mic will be all the way up. There's no way you'd hear that in any real world situation.
Keep in mind the camera is directly next to the lens, in a silent room, which means that the gain on the mic will be all the way up. There's no way you'd hear that in any real world situation.
Sparrow
Veteran
... is this the same chap that didn't notice that purple infrared thing when the M8 came out?
jsrockit
Moderator
The Leica X1's aperture does this as well... something about the aperture opening to allow light for the LCD or something of that nature (if I remember correctly).
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Sean Reid mentions that he gave feedback to Leica, which produced firmware update; his comments are aimed at stimulating a similar development from Fuji.
People who've actually owned the camera report that the sound (and the action) can be suppressed by turning off the EVF and the LCD. In OVF mode, in other words, you wouldn't hear the chattering.
I won't have my camera until late next week, but the clips I've seen on the net show that the sound is much more subdued than you'd be led to think.
People who've actually owned the camera report that the sound (and the action) can be suppressed by turning off the EVF and the LCD. In OVF mode, in other words, you wouldn't hear the chattering.
I won't have my camera until late next week, but the clips I've seen on the net show that the sound is much more subdued than you'd be led to think.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
I think that was Michael Reichmann
For what it is worth....
Pretty sure if one does a search at DPReview, the Olympus micro 4/3s cameras do this too; supposedly any lens faster than f/2; i.e., the 20/1.7 Panasonic, Olympus 45 f1.8, PanaLeica 25 f1.4 (both versions.)
I shot that video above, it's not nearly as loud as Reid makes it out to be. The photog can hear it because it's right next to the ear.
Compare to the shutter sound here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AqUDjAy9KQ
Pretty sure if one does a search at DPReview, the Olympus micro 4/3s cameras do this too; supposedly any lens faster than f/2; i.e., the 20/1.7 Panasonic, Olympus 45 f1.8, PanaLeica 25 f1.4 (both versions.)
I shot that video above, it's not nearly as loud as Reid makes it out to be. The photog can hear it because it's right next to the ear.
Compare to the shutter sound here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AqUDjAy9KQ
MaxElmar
Well-known
My Olympus E-PL2 did a similar thing - and yes, it was audible (to the photographer, anyway), and yes it was quite annoying. It wasn't a terrible flaw, as it did not happen very often. It has to do with the live view finding correct exposure - the aperture can fluctuate rapidly. It just added to the "friction" that led me to dump that system.... not that I wouldn't consider trying again at some point.
CVickery
Established
One of the concerns, aside from the noise, is, does this constant opening and closing of the aperture potentially lead to early failure of the aperture mechanism?
willie_901
Veteran
That's him. Very early on, if I remember correctly, he shot a bowl of fruit and decided the color fidelity was great. Then others started to publish purple artifacts and all the other well known issues. I do remember thinking, while I was ignorant of the IR issue with digital imaging, I certainly was glad I didn't expect people to pay me anything.
The lens chatter in the X100 and X-Pro 1 is related to the EVF/LCD where the aperture changes to keep the exposure relatively constant during composition. What a terrible flaw.
CVickery
Established
Hopefully that's what it's been engineered to do. However, this aperture flutter would seem have the aperture opening and closing at least an order of magnitude more than would have been typical for a camera only a few years ago ( ie once per shutter actuation vs every few seconds) If the aperture is cycled a conservative 10x more frequently we may be talking 3 years vs 30 years....enough to be beyond warranty so possibly not a manufacturer concern, but I still use 3+ year old DLSR and I hope to be using lenses for significantly longer than that.
jsrockit
Moderator
Has it been an issue with any other live view cameras from a few years ago?
willie_901
Veteran
Actually early on Michael Reichmann published a color-gamut response plot for the M8. This plot clearly showed the IR sensitivity of the M8.
See this link and scroll it Figs 1 and 2.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-m8.shtml
Reichmann wrote:
The wireframe in this 3D representation is the very large ProPhoto RGB colour space. It exceeds CIE LAB in all except a few areas (primarily the bluey / greens). The solid plot is that of the Leica M8. It clearly is almost as large as ProPhoto RGB (and is far larger than Adobe RGB) but what has caught my eye are the three spikes, one in the greens and the other two in the mauves and reds.
The extreme spike in the very deep reds indicates to me that the M8 has a very weak to nonexistent infra-red blocking filter. Does this mean that the M8 could be an ideal camera for doing infra-red photography, by just adding a visible light blocking filter? I'll leave that to someone who wishes to explore it, but when you do, please let me know and I'll pass the information along.
And, it didn't cost a penny to read either.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
In fairness to Sean, I think a lot of reviewers either failed to notice it - or left it out intentionally relying on some assurances from Leica that it would be fixed by the time the M8 launched.
I'm sure those reviewers learned some lessons there - at a cost to their credibility.
It's funny looking back on that debacle. It's amazing (in a bad way) that a camera could have been released with such a glaring problem. It was as if they thought no one would notice that their blacks were actually purple.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
Oops, sorry comment retracted.
Luke_Y
Member
To be fair I think that is partly the point he is trying to make.
Answer- Too early to tell...
I think the concern expressed is that while we are becoming accustomed to a digital body being semi disposable, we are used to keeping quality lenses for decades. If the aperture use is increased by 10 or more have they been engineered for the longevity that we are used to? Or, will a quality lens become as disposable as a digital body?
I am wiling to give the benefit of the doubt to Fuji that in a building full of engineers someone considered this. But, then again someone may have pointed it out, and a corprate type may have responded "cost too much- the paradigm is changing- people are used to replacing gear".
jsrockit
Moderator
True, but many people bought them and many people still use them today.
aleksanderpolo
Established
Sean Reid had an update on the issue a few days ago, worth checking out. But whether it is too loud is a personal thing and depends on the environment you will be using the camera in. I think some people are also concerned that the sticky aperture blade problem in some x100 might be related to the aperture blade dancing, but Fuji hasn't explain the cause as far as I remember?
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
True. And I was one of the people who bought that first batch of M8s.
I went through the problems of having to send the camera back for the initial sensor repair. Along with a couple other things that went wrong.
During my first year with my first M8, it spent as much time back with Leica as it did with me.
But really, regardless of how usable/fantastic the M8 might be, it's still just amazing (at least to me) that they ever allowed it to leave the factory with such a glaring problem. (talking about the IR issue)
Obviously it was a costly lesson for them. And I'm sure they learned something from it.
