Sean's information from Leica on IR issues

[ampguy]

great example

great example

over the decades films have behaved oddly and out of spec, yet were not known to be defective. Pro's learned to underexpose or deal with the film's characteristics, reciprocity issues, color renditions with different temp lighting, etc.

If the film different from the way it were advertised or specified, then it would be either defective or wrongful advertising or marketing, but the Leica's have always been positioned as creative photo products.

If a type of color film behaved the same way, we would probably say it was defective. Few would purchase such a film. As a "tool for creativity," a film like this would get old faster than a 6mm fisheye.

 

[jano]

off topic...

off topic...

Hey, Mark... I need another film user to back me up! 😀

Funny...

I subscribed to Sean's review last week and after I read the review of the M8, I have decided to test out the RD1.

Dear Leica,
For now, you came this close;

 

[halabar]

So let me get this straight....

Some of you find it acceptable that you'll need to add a filter to all you lenses all the time because this problem MIGHT show up. And also pay to get all your lenses coded.

Some of you find it unacceptable that Leica let this camera out in this condition, and will return your M8 or refuse to buy until it is resolved.

And there are a few in-between.

Now, can't you all get along?... This place is sounding more like DPReview.

 

[varjag]

Imagine if your longtime friend had such problems, would you be so inconsiderate, brash and harsh to your friend. I think Leica is like an old friend for many people here and should be treated like one.

Imagine your old friend scamming you for $5000 because he has problems and needs the money.

 

[Mark Wood]

I can't help but think that Leica could help themselves (and a lot of potential customers) by adding lens type selection to a menu in addition and as an alternative to lens recognition by the 6-bit coding. Customised menus could then just be used to include the lenses that the user owns or uses regularly to minimise the time that it takes to change lenses. My view is that unless there's some technical reason for not doing this, the 6-bit coding business will continue to be viewed as just a mechanism for Leica to print money.
I'm sure the bad press surrounding the M8 is working wonders for Nikon's D200 sales and wouldn't it be intriguing if Leica have accidentally given the green light for Sony to now use their Konica acquisition to launch a digital Hexar or even Nikon a digital SP....

 

[ywenz]

I so wish that there will be another viable option for digital RF.. A cheaper soln than the M8 would be choice!

 

[Toby]

I so wish that there will be another viable option for digital RF.. A cheaper soln than the M8 would be choice!

I wish that CV Zeiss and Leica would share some technology costs to develop a range of digital RF products with a well thought out upgrade path. As it is three companies products in film RF do not directly compete, at least on price, in a very small market. Leica need to bring more people into RF -CV could help them do that. If they took five minutes to look at this forum they'd realise that todays bessa user is tomorrows M user. Why not co-operate with voigtlander offer 6 bit encoding on their lenses safe in the knowledge they are putting new RF users on a path that will lead to them. Who knows, if they offered to share digital technology more users would take up the M system safe in the knowledge they could mix and match kit and upgrade later. A cheap bessa digital makes the M digital more viable as a system because a back up body is part of any pro's kit, and who wants to spend $5000 on a back up? Leica should do some maths work out what the average photographer earns and what he can spend on kit then collaborate with others to produce an affordable system solution. If they can do it with panasonic...

 

[jaapv]

Hey Guys!
There is a simple software solution to magenta shift in postprocessing:
Nikon Capture NX. It has multiple different blackpoints on any number of areas in the photograph and processes them all in one pass.

 

[varjag]

And as considering Leica a friend. I don't think they scammed anyone into $5,000 for a camera. Scamming assumes that they had prior knowledge that this problem existed and that they thought the product should not be sold. The camera delivers execllent photos, as many have already seen, it behaves like an M camera, and has many features that perform successfully.

My analogy was just as eccentric as your suggestion to consider a public company a friend. Still I don't believe a flaw of that scale (which was discovered in like first days the cameras arrived to users) has never came up during development, in-house testing, or extended testing by real photographers. Odds are high they knew about the problem but didn't postpone the launch anyway.

I think it performs to a level that it doesn't honestly deserve the label DEFECT as if it was just a total failure. I think that simply is not true. We can probably even run the numbers and show statistically that it is not a DEFECT.

To operate statistically you will need to quantify the defects first, so no you can't do that with types of defects not known in advance.

From a user standpoint this is a defect, since it disallows any reasonable degree of color fidelity in presence of IR reflecting materials. Pretty serious flaw if you want to rely on the camera.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I can't help but think that Leica could help themselves (and a lot of potential customers) by adding lens type selection to a menu in addition and as an alternative to lens recognition by the 6-bit coding. Customised menus could then just be used to include the lenses that the user owns or uses regularly to minimise the time that it takes to change lenses.

This is precisely what I thought, and I'm surprised they didn't think of this. Or if they did, I can't understand their reasoning for omitting it. There already is an automatic frameline selection when mounting a lens; why not tie that to a pre-selected list of profiles which you can use to embed your files with as you shoot with your lens?

If anything, through the tediousness of having to switch this selection numerous times when you are switching lenses, would drive you to say "heck, I'll just pay for the coding". I am very sure they will get more lens coding business this way, and more users happy.

But that team of consultants, from what classifieds did they find them? Geez!

 

[Ascender]

Hey Wenz. Wassup?

-charlie

 

[jaapv]

Charlie- You asked about the 1.4-75 focussing in some other thread -I don't recall which- I tried mine extensively last night and it is spot-on within 1 cm even in low light. It must be a problem with your lens, I fear.

 

[Ascender]

Charlie- You asked about the 1.4-75 focussing in some other thread -I don't recall which- I tried mine extensively last night and it is spot-on within 1 cm even in low light. It must be a problem with your lens, I fear.

It must be. Thanks Jaap. I think I need to send the whole lot back to Leica for some TLC. Tony Rose has got a 21mm coded in in Chrome and I'm wondering whether or not to indulge seeing as I'm only going to use the M8 on special occasions. Apparently they have stopped production of that lens. I suppose it would be a good one to have although I really only see myself shooting film based Leica RF's from this point on. Anyway, thanks for the heads up on the 75mm.

-charlie

seal.com

 

[MP Guy]

Grab the 21. One day you will say to yourself, I wish I had picked up that chrome 21. Not to mention it ios like a 28 on the M8