Security Guards

[dmr]

One thing I just did, on my way back from my weekly "Sunday Breakfast Club" thing was to stop by the mall and go to "Barnes And Daltons" and pick up a copy of Krages' Legal Handbook for Photographers. I've been reading about this book for maybe a couple years, and I do have his handouts, so I figured I should probably read up in more detail, since things like this appear not to be going away.

There was another similar book there, something like "The Law In Plain English for Photographers", but it was mostly a rehash on what a copyright was, what a trademark was, how to set up a legal corporation, etc. The Krages text seems to be more real-world based. I just started flipping thru it, so I can't really comment on it yet. I will when I read enough ...

If it is not posted as no photography, ignore them and continue on.

My big complaint is that seldom if ever where photography is supposedly prohibited is there such a sign. 🙁

The majority of security guards are guys that always wanted to be sworn LEO but could not make the grade.

Not to stereotype here, and not to try to be somewhat sexist, but it's always been my impression that many (MANY, not ALL) private security guys love their sense of authority, and love this to be reinforced. Same goes for (MANY, not ALL of) the guys who volunteered as hall monitors in high school, nightclub doormen, and those guys who walk around in bright orange "Event Security" t-shirts at Shakespeare In The Park.

If you can keep the guy feeling that he is in charge, and that he has "won" the confrontation, he will move on and go back to doing whatever it is he does when he's not confronting photographers. 🙂 That's what I meant a few messages back when I said to play dumb, apologize, and move on -- you then move on (out of his sight) and continue taking photos.

Again, not to stereotype, but it's been my impression that if you in any way challenge this type's authority, tell him he can't do something, or that he does not have the autority to do something, he will tend to go out of his way to show you that yes, he does. I don't want such a confrontation and escalation. I would much rather that he goes his way, still feeling as important as he thinks he is, and I go mine to take photos out of his territory.

They do NOT have the right to confiscate any film, cameras, or memory cards.

Krages has a whole chapter on seizure of equipment and film. I'll probably read that one in depth first. His next chapter is on dealing with confrontation.

Maybe it is just me, but I have fun backing them down in situations like that.

I don't like confrontations. It's not my style. Why spend the energy to pop the guy's bubble? I would rather that I get out of his space and he gets out of mine and I get back to what I was doing.

Now many of the casino security guards are actually very nice. I'm also aware that these guys have a well-deserved reputation for dealing very harshly with cheats and paparazzi stalking their customers, but I've had enjoyable conversations with some of them regarding photography in casinos.

The last time I was confronted anywhere -- it was a casino that was to close in 3 more weeks -- the guy was very apologetic and asked, not demanded, that I not take anything that showed any of their customers. (I do keep a list of what casinos allow what, if anybody wants I will repost it.)

Oh well, enough ranting for today. 🙂

 

[Kim Coxon]

I think that this is an interesting point and maybe not too far off the mark. As has been said elsewhere in the thread, it sometimes pays to seek the guard out and ask his permission. It feeds his ego/self importance and he feels in charge so he says yes. After that, if there are any questions, you are "under his authority" so if anything he is likely to back you up!

Kim

Kim

Not to stereotype here, and not to try to be somewhat sexist, but it's always been my impression that many (MANY, not ALL) private security guys love their sense of authority, and love this to be reinforced. Same goes for (MANY, not ALL of) the guys who volunteered as hall monitors in high school, nightclub doormen, and those guys who walk around in bright orange "Event Security" t-shirts at Shakespeare In The Park.

If you can keep the guy feeling that he is in charge, and that he has "won" the confrontation, he will move on and go back to doing whatever it is he does when he's not confronting photographers. 🙂 That's what I meant a few messages back when I said to play dumb, apologize, and move on -- you then move on (out of his sight) and continue taking photos.

Again, not to stereotype, but it's been my impression that if you in any way challenge this type's authority, tell him he can't do something, or that he does not have the autority to do something, he will tend to go out of his way to show you that yes, he does. I don't want such a confrontation and escalation. I would much rather that he goes his way, still feeling as important as he thinks he is, and I go mine to take photos out of his territory.

I don't like confrontations. It's not my style. Why spend the energy to pop the guy's bubble? I would rather that I get out of his space and he gets out of mine and I get back to what I was doing.

 

[Ash]

only thing is, if you ask and they say no, you've blown the chance.

It's more than likely in a lot of places you can get away with it before/without being caught

 

[spysmart]

RF cameras seem to be becoming more invisible 😀 - most normal camera's are now held at arms length and let off a flash when used indoors.

I've always wanted to take a photo of the dome at my bank, so I took several photos while standing in the queue at the bank yesterday morning. No one said anything even when I stood in the door and took this - so I guess it was ok :angel: . It was near the start of the film so if they did want it I would have handed it over.

However I have been asked to cease and desist ( not by the security guard who said it was ok, but by the 'publicity officer', who said I was stealing the artists copyright ) at the Tate Modern when supporting a roundshot on a monopod 🙁 At least I did get one reasonable scan of 'the weather project '.

 

[Harlee]

Security

Security

This has happened to me on several occasions. The first time that I recall took place in Romania in 1991. Stopped at the border to obtain our visas I saw a number of folks taking pictures and I did as well. After taking a couple of shots, a border security guard threatened to take my camera in animated gestures even though there wasn't a sign against taking pictures. Well, I can sort of understand that.

However at JFK, prior 2001, I was leaving for Moscow and wanted to take a picture of the flight time, destination and the name Aeroflot. A security guard [American] came running at me shouting "no pictures allowed." I asked him where the signs were warning about taking pictures. He ignored my question and kept shouting "no pictures." So, I ignored him as well.

Since 2001 things have gotten tighter, like the time in Kosovo, my friend took a picture of a mosque and just as he snapped it an UN ACP driven by Greek soldiers drove into the picture - they made an abrupt u-turn and demanded the camera. We refused, so they placed a call to an American Army captain, who it turned out was Greek and spoke Greek. He took charge of the situation and informed him that we were Americans and that he was now in charge of the situation and dismissed them. After the Greek UN soldiers left, he sort of chuckled when we explained the situation and gently told us to be careful and use caution when taking pictures. Today, I try to size up the situation and do use caution, especially when I'm back in Russia and Ukraine.

 

[David Murphy]

Some art museums are forbidding photography since they want all the revenue from repoductions of their art. That's one reason for the often elaborate book stores connected to the museums.

Once again in Hong Kong I was forbidden by a nearly hysterical security guard from taking photos. I complied of course as it was their property. I did not have a flash either.

 

[Kim Coxon]

Interesting,
The Greek military do seem to be paranoid about photography and consider anybody taking photographs to be spies. Asmany UK members will remember there was the case recently when some UK plane spotters were arrested and tried for spying in Greece. They were actually warned by many people about the Greek attitude but said they were allowed to take pics because they were spotters. They were proved wrong. Knowledge of local customs can be very important!

Kim

Since 2001 things have gotten tighter, like the time in Kosovo, my friend took a picture of a mosque and just as he snapped it an UN ACP driven by Greek soldiers drove into the picture - they made an abrupt u-turn and demanded the camera. We refused, so they placed a call to an American Army captain, who it turned out was Greek and spoke Greek. He took charge of the situation and informed him that we were Americans and that he was now in charge of the situation and dismissed them. After the Greek UN soldiers left, he sort of chuckled when we explained the situation and gently told us to be careful and use caution when taking pictures. Today, I try to size up the situation and do use caution, especially when I'm back in Russia and Ukraine.

 

[w3rk5]

Years ago, I've worked as a security guard. The malls I've worked in didn't allow people to take pictures. I had to ask people on several occasions to stop taking pictures. (Please don't send any hate mail. I was only doing my job.) 😱

Everyone I had delt with took it well. I think it had to do with my apporach. I didn't give people any attitude, threats, demands, ultimatiums, nor power trip. 😉 It could be a different story if someone approached me and said, "someone is taking pictures of me and I'm scared".

Anyway, if you want to take pictures in a mall and not get herassed (as much) the best bet is to talk with the property management people.

 

[David Murphy]

RF cameras seem to be becoming more invisible 😀 - most normal camera's are now held at arms length and let off a flash when used indoors.

I've always wanted to take a photo of the dome at my bank, so I took several photos while standing in the queue at the bank yesterday morning. No one said anything even when I stood in the door and took this - so I guess it was ok :angel: . It was near the start of the film so if they did want it I would have handed it over.

However I have been asked to cease and desist ( not by the security guard who said it was ok, but by the 'publicity officer', who said I was stealing the artists copyright ) at the Tate Modern when supporting a roundshot on a monopod 🙁 At least I did get one reasonable scan of 'the weather project '.

Very nice shot!

One way to avoid the camera police is to use an SLR with a waist level finder like an Exakta. It's dead easy to frame and shoot well with no one noticing it if there is enough ambient noise to cover the mirror slap. The perfect camera for this might be a 35mm SLR with a waist level finder and a leaf shiutter (for quietness), but I can't think of any that combine these two features..

Waist level finders, once so common when I was young, are now so rare outside of circles like this as to probably not be recognizable as camera finders by most people.