fwellers
Member
Hi,
I've been lurking for a long time, and have always been flirting with Leica since the M8.
My Nikon Kit is simple D700, 70-200vr2, 24-70, D90 and a few cheap lenses. So I guess I can sell all of them and afford an M9, but not any lenses.
Obviously I would keep all if I could afford it, but it's gotta be either one or the other.
The reason for me to want the M9 ( other than the purist in me ), is that the D700 is so darn huge. Not that I mind the weight that much, I'm used to it now, but it draws so much attention. I've seen so many nice images taken in small spaces, restaurants and such , and I couldn't imagine doing that with my 50 caliber machine gun. haha.
I know part of me would always miss the ease of autofocus, high iso, long lenses etc...
But another part of me would love the simplicity of such a system, and the forced creativity of one prime lens.
I probably need to make a ton of threads for all my questions, like ,
Am I crazy and will I be sorry after the thrill wears off ?
What lens should I buy ( can't afford a sumilux ) but want a real nice 50 or 35 1.4 type lens.
What gotchyas are there that I don't know about ?
How would my workflow go ? Save as png instead of nef and process in LR instead of CNX2 ? Is it that simple ?
Any quick advice for me ?
Appreciated.
Floyd
I've been lurking for a long time, and have always been flirting with Leica since the M8.
My Nikon Kit is simple D700, 70-200vr2, 24-70, D90 and a few cheap lenses. So I guess I can sell all of them and afford an M9, but not any lenses.
Obviously I would keep all if I could afford it, but it's gotta be either one or the other.
The reason for me to want the M9 ( other than the purist in me ), is that the D700 is so darn huge. Not that I mind the weight that much, I'm used to it now, but it draws so much attention. I've seen so many nice images taken in small spaces, restaurants and such , and I couldn't imagine doing that with my 50 caliber machine gun. haha.
I know part of me would always miss the ease of autofocus, high iso, long lenses etc...
But another part of me would love the simplicity of such a system, and the forced creativity of one prime lens.
I probably need to make a ton of threads for all my questions, like ,
Am I crazy and will I be sorry after the thrill wears off ?
What lens should I buy ( can't afford a sumilux ) but want a real nice 50 or 35 1.4 type lens.
What gotchyas are there that I don't know about ?
How would my workflow go ? Save as png instead of nef and process in LR instead of CNX2 ? Is it that simple ?
Any quick advice for me ?
Appreciated.
Floyd
B.S.
Member
I'd recommend Canon LTM glass, like the 50mm 1.4, 1.5 or 1.8 for a pretty darn decent affordable lens.
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hteasley
Pupil
If you can afford it, maybe an M8 to start with, without selling your kit? You could probably use it for a few months, and sell it for what you paid (or more, if you're lucky).
The CV 1,4/35 is a nice lens. I started with the C-Biogon 2,8/35, and it's an awesome lens.
The CV 1,4/35 is a nice lens. I started with the C-Biogon 2,8/35, and it's an awesome lens.
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
Do you have any experience with rangefinders in general? It'd be a shame to go through all that only to learn that rangefinders don't suit you.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
Really just depends on what you hope to accomplish with your photography. Can you do it with one lens?
That nikon kit covers an awfully wide range of shooting needs.
I'm always curious to know how someone ends up with a kit like that - but then considers dropping it for a something as scaled back as a single camera and lens. Whether you consider it "forced creativity" or needlessly limiting yourself, it's a pretty substantial change in your photographic tools.
Personally, I couldn't do it. I have pretty much the same DSLR setup along with an M8.2 and several lenses. Certainly there are times that I don't carry the heavier Nikon gear. But there are also times when the Leica simply cannot do what I need my camera to do.
That nikon kit covers an awfully wide range of shooting needs.
I'm always curious to know how someone ends up with a kit like that - but then considers dropping it for a something as scaled back as a single camera and lens. Whether you consider it "forced creativity" or needlessly limiting yourself, it's a pretty substantial change in your photographic tools.
Personally, I couldn't do it. I have pretty much the same DSLR setup along with an M8.2 and several lenses. Certainly there are times that I don't carry the heavier Nikon gear. But there are also times when the Leica simply cannot do what I need my camera to do.
nobbylon
Veteran
Personally I would say don't do it. I use a D700 with various lenses including the 24-70 you have and the workflow and effort needed to get a finished product is much simpler than with the M9. Maybe it's me but I really dislike wasting time behind a computer trying to get the right colour. D700 and NX2 couldn't be easier.
Granted I haven't spent a lot of time with the M9 as I can't focus a rangefinder as quick as I'd like to and just got frustrated with it. Saying that it's the same with my M6 and M2 so that's just me. I miss the small size of the M's though.
Image quality on the M9 with my 50 pre asph Summilux when I got the focus right was amazing.
My advice would be keep the Nikon kit and add an M6 and a 35 or 50 to see if it suits you. Better still borrow an M9 if you can and try it.
I'd love an A/F M9 with the ability of connecting up to a mac and converting from DNG in 2 steps for the result I want.
I'm sure plenty here can acheive that but for me ease of use was the limiting factor.
Granted I haven't spent a lot of time with the M9 as I can't focus a rangefinder as quick as I'd like to and just got frustrated with it. Saying that it's the same with my M6 and M2 so that's just me. I miss the small size of the M's though.
Image quality on the M9 with my 50 pre asph Summilux when I got the focus right was amazing.
My advice would be keep the Nikon kit and add an M6 and a 35 or 50 to see if it suits you. Better still borrow an M9 if you can and try it.
I'd love an A/F M9 with the ability of connecting up to a mac and converting from DNG in 2 steps for the result I want.
I'm sure plenty here can acheive that but for me ease of use was the limiting factor.
gerikson
Established
I'd get a smaller lens for the D700, like the 35/2 AF-D or an older 35/1.4 AIs. I'd say a big reason the camera seems so intimidating is the size of the zoom lenses.
mathomas
Well-known
I bought an M8 about 1.5 years ago for the same reasons you list. I was tired of my super-sized Canon stuff, and found I never carried it. Fortunately for me, I didn't have to sell the Canon gear to buy a used M8 (got a good deal off eBay). In the end, I did sell off my Canon gear but I replaced it with another DLSR (actually a DSLT) -- a Sony A55, which is tiny compared to the Canon (camera body and two extra lenses in one very small bag). The fact is there are some types of photography for which the SLR is the best tool (BTW, I came out way ahead on the Sony A55 kit).
The M9 is a bit different than the M8: hugely expensive and fairly new. Since you'd have to dump your SLR gear to buy an M9 my strong recommendation is that you rent an M9 and lens before you make this decision.
If you do get an M9, then a good cheap (everything is relative) lens for it is the Voigtlander 35 f/1.4 (or the 40mm mentioned above, just know that the M9 doesn't have 40mm framelines). There are usually really good bargains for these used, and they do have a modern rendering, which you may prefer coming from Nikon DSLRs.
Best of luck...
PS: In addition to the M8, I also ended up shooting film again, with a really nice M2. Then I got a Fuji medium format film rangefinder. You might consider just skipping the M9 and going straight to the top: film. It's much cheaper, and you could probably keep your Nikon. Sorry, I couldn't resist
.
The M9 is a bit different than the M8: hugely expensive and fairly new. Since you'd have to dump your SLR gear to buy an M9 my strong recommendation is that you rent an M9 and lens before you make this decision.
If you do get an M9, then a good cheap (everything is relative) lens for it is the Voigtlander 35 f/1.4 (or the 40mm mentioned above, just know that the M9 doesn't have 40mm framelines). There are usually really good bargains for these used, and they do have a modern rendering, which you may prefer coming from Nikon DSLRs.
Best of luck...
PS: In addition to the M8, I also ended up shooting film again, with a really nice M2. Then I got a Fuji medium format film rangefinder. You might consider just skipping the M9 and going straight to the top: film. It's much cheaper, and you could probably keep your Nikon. Sorry, I couldn't resist
.
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N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Floyd
I am with the others that have said it may be your large zooms that are drawing the attention. Try a cheap Nikon 50/1.8 afd to see if that helps with the attention getting factor. There is no way I would part with my D700 and rely solely on an M9 because I like to try to shoot stuff that an RF is just not good at. I would seriously consider a Fuji X100 as a supplement to my D700 kit for when I want small and light.
Bob
I am with the others that have said it may be your large zooms that are drawing the attention. Try a cheap Nikon 50/1.8 afd to see if that helps with the attention getting factor. There is no way I would part with my D700 and rely solely on an M9 because I like to try to shoot stuff that an RF is just not good at. I would seriously consider a Fuji X100 as a supplement to my D700 kit for when I want small and light.
Bob
charlesholland
Member
I started taking pictures, developing film and making prints (b&w) about 35 years ago (Nikkormat, then Nikon F photomic), had a lot of fun, but found it a waste of chemicals and paper: maybe 10% was somehow acceptable to me. Therefore I stopped until digital photography made it possible without spoiling the environment with my photographic ambitions: as a Nikon adept You can imagine: Nikon D100, followed by Nikon D300 with nice lenses. However: I couldn't get used to learning menus, buttons, manuals to read etc etc, a flash that isn't interchangeable between D100 and D300 and not to forget: the weight of all this. Therefore I sold all in once to by a used M8.2 and have the budget to try with lenses what suits my needs (absolutely not necessarily a summilux asph!). I haven't regretted it one second: carry my camera with me all time, buy and sell a lens now and then, and guess what: recently got back to film (minolta CLE): scan and you have your digital negative. A rangefinder, a diaphragm and a distance ring, no more no less: I am enjoying photography again. But mind You not to compare a reflex with a rangefinder: it is only what suits your needs that makes the difference.
Untitled by charlesholland, on Flickr
Untitled by charlesholland, on Flickr
swoop
Well-known
I keep a Canon 5D mk2 and Leica M9 around. Both have their uses. The 5D is technically the better camera. But the M9 is just fun to use and easier to carry around.
I went from, after using film Ms for years, a M8, to a D700, back to the M8.2, and just upgraded to the M9. I was only comfortable with the M9 purchase after knowing that the Leica M is THE camera for me. I wouldn't take this purchase lightly. You may want to test yourself with a film M first.
newsgrunt
Well-known
I use D3's and have never noticed the size of camera or lens as distractions. I think it's usually more to do with how the photographer carries themselves or acts that people respond or react to. If I don't act like it's a big deal, no one else is bothered either and life goes on and I get the photos I need.
But I agree, go to smaller primes, the D700 isn't really that big and you'll find you're thinking more since you don't have the option of zooming in or out. You have to work with where you are or move to where you need to be. This interaction is an important part of getting really good photographs and imo, getting people to feel comfortable with you and your camera.
But I agree, go to smaller primes, the D700 isn't really that big and you'll find you're thinking more since you don't have the option of zooming in or out. You have to work with where you are or move to where you need to be. This interaction is an important part of getting really good photographs and imo, getting people to feel comfortable with you and your camera.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
There's two things I regret on my gear-career:
having bought an M8, and
having traded in my perfectly good Nikon kit to do so.
The D300 and lenses were a big kit and heavy and I had serious back trouble a few years back. But the M8 was a pain in the b*tt since I kept screwing filters on and off to also use the lenses on an M3. And, the darn filters were like light house torches in sunlight, always a bright purple reflection flashing around :bang: people looking around wondering what that just was, etc. My stealth cover blown instantly
Can't say much about the M9 (I presume it to be really nice and I might even overcome my M8 frustration if I were able to try and buy one), but I would definitely test drive an M8 before you dive in by selling your Nikon gear!
having bought an M8, and
having traded in my perfectly good Nikon kit to do so.
The D300 and lenses were a big kit and heavy and I had serious back trouble a few years back. But the M8 was a pain in the b*tt since I kept screwing filters on and off to also use the lenses on an M3. And, the darn filters were like light house torches in sunlight, always a bright purple reflection flashing around :bang: people looking around wondering what that just was, etc. My stealth cover blown instantly
Can't say much about the M9 (I presume it to be really nice and I might even overcome my M8 frustration if I were able to try and buy one), but I would definitely test drive an M8 before you dive in by selling your Nikon gear!
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efirmage
Established
I'd do it, but only when you can afford a decent lens to go along with the M9.
I recently just sold my dSLR to purchase a new lens for my M6 and save up for an M9. I couldn't be happier, but I already knew I loved my M6 so the decision was relatively easy.
The things you give up are mainly AF, IS, and zoom. I don't like using any of those besides image stabilization anyway, so it wasn't a big deal to me. I learned on a fixed manual focus lens and I feel comfortable shooting like that.
Maybe pick up a cheap film rangefinder and see if that style is for you. Them move on to the M9 if it feels right.
*edit*
I suppose you give up high ISO performance as well. I'm used to film and the XTi, so I never had high ISO performance in the first place.
I recently just sold my dSLR to purchase a new lens for my M6 and save up for an M9. I couldn't be happier, but I already knew I loved my M6 so the decision was relatively easy.
The things you give up are mainly AF, IS, and zoom. I don't like using any of those besides image stabilization anyway, so it wasn't a big deal to me. I learned on a fixed manual focus lens and I feel comfortable shooting like that.
Maybe pick up a cheap film rangefinder and see if that style is for you. Them move on to the M9 if it feels right.
*edit*
I suppose you give up high ISO performance as well. I'm used to film and the XTi, so I never had high ISO performance in the first place.
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Benjamin Marks
Veteran
I am an unabashed fan of both Leica and Nikon, both film and digital. And I'd be the first to say that an M9 and D700 are complementary rather than exclusive. But if you have been doing photography for three years and haven't really found a "voice" or a "vision" I would not lay out the cash on a $7,000 camera in the hopes that that new piece of gear would be the thing to solidify the way you work or how you want to present the world in your pictures. Not fun advice, I know. But let's step back for a moment.
The D700 is an awesome camera with more resolution and low-light capability than any 35mm film could ever provide. You seem to be using a lot of zoom lenses at the moment. Let me echo the advice above and suggest that instead of the massive wad of cash you are on the verge of talking yourself into dropping that you spend $900 on any three manual focus Nikon primes that will work with your camera. I'd go for a 24/2.8, a 50/2 and an 105/2.5. And then spend a year mastering those focal lengths. Leave the house with just one lens glued to your camera and spend all day shooting with it. Run that D700 shutter 'till it smokes. That will give you a feel for the simplicity you are craving. In terms of IQ, I have a D3 and an M9 and I don't choose which one to take based on IQ. In terms of IQ: we are there. Don't need to go no further. And $7,000 is a lot of coin for a camera. Depreciate that D700 to zero and save your shekels while you're doing it so that when it croaks you can afford the camera of your dreams.
Ben
The D700 is an awesome camera with more resolution and low-light capability than any 35mm film could ever provide. You seem to be using a lot of zoom lenses at the moment. Let me echo the advice above and suggest that instead of the massive wad of cash you are on the verge of talking yourself into dropping that you spend $900 on any three manual focus Nikon primes that will work with your camera. I'd go for a 24/2.8, a 50/2 and an 105/2.5. And then spend a year mastering those focal lengths. Leave the house with just one lens glued to your camera and spend all day shooting with it. Run that D700 shutter 'till it smokes. That will give you a feel for the simplicity you are craving. In terms of IQ, I have a D3 and an M9 and I don't choose which one to take based on IQ. In terms of IQ: we are there. Don't need to go no further. And $7,000 is a lot of coin for a camera. Depreciate that D700 to zero and save your shekels while you're doing it so that when it croaks you can afford the camera of your dreams.
Ben
awilder
Alan Wilder
I would never sell my Nikon D700 for an M9 although I understand your plight. I sold off most of my M gear for more Nikon stuff and an Olympus E-P2. The Oly is even smalller than the M9 and adapters are available to take Nikon, Leica or almost any other glass. The neat thing about the E-P2 with it's EVF is that your image shows up immediately through the finder (or LCD screen) so you know whether or not the shot needs to be redone.
lewis44
Well-known
I agree with this statement.
Look, if you switch, you will be using Primes on the Leica, so give Primes a shot on your D700.
I had zooms and hated the size. I now only have Primes and am a happy camper.
Ronald M
Veteran
Rent or borrow one.
One lens would limit me beyond belief.
Leica may still have a semi secret loaner program at large dealers. Try Calumet of B&h.
One lens would limit me beyond belief.
Leica may still have a semi secret loaner program at large dealers. Try Calumet of B&h.
Tim Gray
Well-known
A D700 is a pretty capable camera. I started off about 6 years ago with a Canon DSLR (rebel) and a couple lenses. It was fun, but long before I had invested in a seriously expensive camera or lenses, I decided to try out a Leica M6. I was able to get in the door around $1500 for the camera and the lens, and I figured I could sell it for about the same price if I didn't like it (which is true).
Of course, years later, I don't know where that DSLR is, and I've got a second film M along with a nice set of lenses. I'm happy; rangefinders, manual focus, and no zooms ended up fitting 95% of the stuff I do. Someday I'll get a digital M.
However, I'd be hard pressed recommending someone drop their very flexible DSLR kit cold turkey for a rangefinder system. I'd say pick up a cheaper film M (and just deal with film for a bit) and try it out for a bit. If you don't like it, you can sell it without losing much money as long as you buy decent used stuff. If you do like it, sell your DSLR stuff and buy an M9.
Of course, years later, I don't know where that DSLR is, and I've got a second film M along with a nice set of lenses. I'm happy; rangefinders, manual focus, and no zooms ended up fitting 95% of the stuff I do. Someday I'll get a digital M.
However, I'd be hard pressed recommending someone drop their very flexible DSLR kit cold turkey for a rangefinder system. I'd say pick up a cheaper film M (and just deal with film for a bit) and try it out for a bit. If you don't like it, you can sell it without losing much money as long as you buy decent used stuff. If you do like it, sell your DSLR stuff and buy an M9.