sell my canon 5d + lenses for a second hand m8?

[adrianzg]

does it make sense at all? i've had my canon 5d for a while now and ever since getting into M lenses and bodies, i've only used the 5d 3-4 times, none for the day to day street shots i used to do on it as it is now waaaay too big compared to my Ms.

i have the old 5d, 85 1.2L ii, 50 1.2L, 200 2.8L, 17-40 4L, 580exii flash, st-e2 ir flash synch + lots of batteries..i'll be getting 6-7K AUD if i sell all of them, more than enough for a second hand m8.

for the 5d:
+ reliable autofocus for all the shallow dof candid shots i do
+ i can select the focus points so that i won't have to recompose
+ 85L is a magical lens that creates light when there is none
+ very good high iso performance
- huge and weighs a tonne
- i only use it for certain shots (http://www.flickr.com/photos/adrianzg/sets/72157621787028259/)

for the m8:
+ i can use all of my 17 leica lenses
+ small and light
- not full frame, my fav 50mm will become 65mm
- none of my lenses are coded and i do not have any ir cut filters
- no autofocus and i have to recompose for every shot; i'd lose the "moment" for candids and if i focus-recompose and anticipate, the shot will probably be out of focus

there're more negatives for the m8 as i've never used one before, so i can't comment on the usability, shutter lag, iso performance, possibility of use in candid low light photography, etc. another problem i forsee would be that the m8 would cause me to not use film anymore and i'll want to thin out my collection of film bodies. but at least i can still use my lenses on the m8.

i've contacted the local leica distributer to negotiate something, possibly me loaning a demo m8 for a week.

what do the experts think? please do chime in as i've been struggling with this issue for months. thank you in advance.

 

[Jonas]

I would rather sell a couple of the 17 Leica lenses and buy a M8 and keep the Canon 😉 No need for 17 lenses on any camera 😀

 

[adrianzg]

heh. true. some of them are for completeness's sake like a red scale elmar for my iiif rdst and a set of 1985 'cron for my 1985 m6.

i have 13 50mm lenses, each with its own character that i use for different looks on different film in different situations for different subjects. 🙂

i'll definitely consider that tho. there are some lenses which i do not use, like a scarred summarit(one of a kind special edition with built in soft focus and increased glow even at f/8). but that wouldn't be enough for a m8. 🙁

 

[Jamie123]

So you have a 5D with several very expensive lenses, numerous film bodies and 17 M-lenses which you have acquired in a rather short time, right? I don't mean to be rude but it doesn't sound like you're on a tight budget. A used M8 is about $2500. Why not just buy one and see how it goes?

Of course there's no sense in keeping the 5D if you don't use it so if that's the case I would sell it regardless of whether or not you buy the M8.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Sell everything. Buy a Leica 8.2, two of the most expensive lenses Leica sells, then shoot nothing else for a year. Cameras are for making photos, after all.

 

[adrianzg]

thank you, i found your reply to be really useful. yes, i've been using my m6 for the past 1 year and i'm familiar with the (lack of) shutter lag and controls. i can probably meter-focus-recompose and take the shot well within 2 seconds..that is with the m6 and using the lenses i'm more used to. i've taken quite a large number of street candids that i'm proud of. unfortunately, when i try to do the low light, shallow dof shots, they get out of focus if i recompose and i loose a significant amout of the frame and have more intrusive grain if i crop post processing. however, in normal daytime candids, i find the rf to be much much better as it's a lot less intrusive.

i used the 5d last night and i missed a couple of shots cause of the shutter lag and vf restrictions. but i was on top of it after 20minutes. hit rate was about 40% for candids, lost shots usually because of blinks or change of facial expressions.

i would say that rf is more rewarding for me in general but i'm often called to do the low light indoor candids which i have no experience with using a rf. would you mind sharing some shots or posting a link where i can see some examples of some low light, shallow dof candids?

i've taken some shots with a m6 during the same event. i'll post some results after i get the film back. my main concern with film rf from my experience last night is that the fixed, low iso of film forces me to use longer shutter speeds which might result in motion blur.

"... i'd lose the "moment" for candids and if i focus-recompose and anticipate, the shot will probably be out of focus...."

I'll start here. Have you used any M body enough to be really familiar with it? I shot M bodies daily for film use from 1973 to 2003. I used a Canon 5D daily from 2005 through 2008. I missed far more moments with the Canon DSLR than I believe I did with the Leica film RF's. It was love at first use for me and my M8.2, so much that I got a second when I could. To facilitate that I sold a not insignificant portion of my Nikon kit.

I don't shoot a rangefinder camera the same way I shoot a SLR, whether film or digital. With the RF I am more certain of getting the moment I desire that with a SLR and as such I shoot far fewer frames / files with the RF.

Work with any camera enough that using it becomes second nature, an extension of your brain, eye and hand, whether it is a Canon 5D or a Leica M8. I don't recall seeing any photos of Cartier-Bresson carrying more than two cameras and lenses. I think he had the tools to make the images he was intent on making and wasn't burdened with distracting other equipment. I think photographers in this era are burdened by too much equipment, whether SLR or RF. If one is intent on being prepared to make either the unobtrusive candid as well as the winning field goal at the other end of the stadium at the same time, there will be many images of both lost due simply to working through the clutter of cameras and lenses. In many situations, less is more.

As to giving up a 5D system to get a M8 system, which kind of photography rewards you the most, SLR or RF?

 

[adrianzg]

So you have a 5D with several very expensive lenses, numerous film bodies and 17 M-lenses which you have acquired in a rather short time, right? I don't mean to be rude but it doesn't sound like you're on a tight budget. A used M8 is about $2500. Why not just buy one and see how it goes?

Of course there's no sense in keeping the 5D if you don't use it so if that's the case I would sell it regardless of whether or not you buy the M8.

hmm..i might actually go that route, buy an m8 then decide which to keep later. budget is actually a little tight for keeping both the m8 and dslr as a few bills are now due.

i still use the 5d when i take photos for friends. that's only because it's the only digital i have. i'm hoping that the m8 will change all that and i can sell the 5d. the only problem is the m8's performance at low light, shallow dof candid stuff.

 

[chrishayton]

I saw this topic and im thinging of doing the same, however! you have the 85l and 50l two of the nicest lenses available and the nicest canon lenses.
Id sugest keeping those lenses and the body and sell the rest to put towards a 5d ( you wont need a flash with those lenses anyway lol)
You would still get £1100~ for the rest and I expect that m8's will reduce after september (if the rumours are true). If not it will still be a fair amount towards a used m8

AF is useful at times especially with very fasy and short tele lenses

 

[adrianzg]

Sell everything. Buy a Leica 8.2, two of the most expensive lenses Leica sells, then shoot nothing else for a year. Cameras are for making photos, after all.

i like the old but cheap lenses i have. plus the 8.2 is waaay too expensive for the extra things i do not need.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I've been using 5D's since they came on the market and I've never noticed shutter lag. With the 24-70 L, I push the button, it takes the photo. AF is fast. Maybe there is an issue with your 5D.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

If you are shooting in very low light, stick an ST-E2 in the hotshoe. It will then focus perfectly in total darkness.

 

[adrianzg]

I've been using 5D's since they came on the market and I've never noticed shutter lag. With the 24-70 L, I push the button, it takes the photo. AF is fast. Maybe there is an issue with your 5D.

i have no problems with general day to day shots but i get missed shots when i take candid photos of pple. i'm used to the slight lag already and am able to compensate accordingly. i also have no problems with AF in low light as i have the st-e2.

my only concern is that i only use the 5d for the occasional low light shallow dof candids for my friends and if the m8 is able to replace the 5d for those situations.

 

[adrianzg]

I saw this topic and im thinging of doing the same, however! you have the 85l and 50l two of the nicest lenses available and the nicest canon lenses.
Id sugest keeping those lenses and the body and sell the rest to put towards a 5d ( you wont need a flash with those lenses anyway lol)
You would still get £1100~ for the rest and I expect that m8's will reduce after september (if the rumours are true). If not it will still be a fair amount towards a used m8

AF is useful at times especially with very fasy and short tele lenses

YES!!! i agree with you on the lenses. the 85 is magical and i will miss it dearly if i seel the 5d + all lenses.

 

[adrianzg]

Thank you all for your replies. they are really helpful, please keep them coming. 🙂

 

[maddoc]

Recently, I had the opportunity to shoot with the M8 and my M-lenses (I have an M7 and M4-P). It was at night shooting some candids at festivals (I shoot 90% of my photos at night). From my - very limited experience - If you can live with ISO400 and slower, the M8 is nice and convenient but you need fast lenses or are limited to daylight work. Also, you need the UV/IR filters at night due to the high amount of IR radiation of some light sources.

Films like Fuji Natura N1600 (color) or Neopan Superpresto 1600PR give better results with a film Leica than the M8 at night, IMHO.

 

[elshaneo]

Sell two of your Canon lenses that You don't use that much, and also some of your Leica lenses especially the 50mm primes since you have so many, You should definitely have more than enough to buy a second hand Leica M8...

 

[Ben Z]

I never got how one person can defer to the advice/opinion of someone else as to what to buy or sell. For example, in the months since I got my 5D refurb I have barely touched my M8 and if I were forced to keep only one it would be the 5D. I know if and when I go on a trip again I'll want to take the M8 because the lenses are compact and it all fits in a small bag, so I am keeping it. Even before I got the 5D I used my 20D more than the M8. Nothing to do with image quality, which in terms of the final print after post processing is equally excellent with all three cameras. Mainly about seeing thru the lens of an SLR being more comfortable to me.

 

[swoop]

I would rather sell a couple of the 17 Leica lenses and buy a M8 and keep the Canon 😉 No need for 17 lenses on any camera 😀

Seriously. I thought I owned too many lenses.

I ended up selling my 20D and all my Canon lenses for a brand new M8 in 2007. In the long run it was a good decision seeing how the M8 just got more expensive. And it suited my style much better.

I suggest selling your 5D gear and lenses and getting the M8. On top of that, buy a 30D or 40D and some sigma or tamron lenses to keep around for the stuff an M8 can't do. Sports and studio work. That's what I do. I have a 4/3rds kit that I use on occasion when I need to do product shots or sports.

 

[Mephiloco]

I'd just get a film scanner and keep shooting on the old M film bodies and not have to deal with the crop factor. The M8 doesn't have anywhere NEAR The lowlight capabilities of the 5d. I'd say get an m8, but don't get of your 5d to get it. As someone said, the 85 1.2 and 50 1.2 are _THE_ canon lenses to have, an argument could be made for going to canon digital just to use those two lenses.

In brief, you might want to sell your 5d later, after you get an m8 are become familiar with it's capabilities, but I think it'd be a bad idea to sell it before seeing what you'll be giving up/comprimising with the m8.

 

[adrianzg]

thank you for all the replies. i guess i'll keep the 5d for the time being and try to get my hands on a m8 to try it out before deciding which to keep.

anyone has any techiques to keep shallow dof candid/potrait shots in focus? i've heard of the technique where u move alone with the subject. i've not tried that as i can't review the shots immediately to determine if i need to take another shot.

another question to m8 users. is the shutter on the original m8 much louder or more noticable than a traditional film m?

could someone also provide me with a raw file from a m8, shot at high iso, 1250 and 2500? i can only find jpgs online and i can't do much with them in terms of noise reduction and highlight recovery.

thank you all once again!