Sharpest Lens Ever under $4000 ??

DNG said:
I am just wandering what your opinion may be...
If there was a shootout on an Leica M9, ME, OR a Olympus E-M5 with adapter for non-Leica mount lenses
....with a controlled target and lighting, Which lens would would it be?

Remember: it must be able to be bought NEW/USED for UNDER $4,000.00

(please don't get side tracked by sensor size. Stay on topic :))
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I think you'll have to specify a minimum $ amount. I'd say that any modern "consumer" lens that is "sharp" and worth buying is under $4,000.

Given that "ever" is ever, are we talking "ever" dollars (i.e. adjust for inflation or Euro/USD conversion for 2002 or 2012)? Or is this Internetish "ever"?
 
ferider said:
Three points:

1) No 35mm or smaller sensor has been built yet to match the resolution available from many modern lenses. I can give you at least a handful of lenses that are "sharper" than any 35mm sensor. On top of this list is the ZM 25/2.8.

2) "Sharp" has no meaning unless you specify desired contrast as well.

3) As noted above you have to define object distance. Then again, for anything else but infinity, the camera comes into play, via inaccurate mirror or rangefinder alignment, or for a finder/mirror-less camera via accuracy of focus mechanism. When you focus peak, what's your resolution in pixel ? MTF charts and serious resolution tests are usually done using focus bracketing. Which your "Gedankenexperiment" does not account for.

Roland.
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Dear Roland,

All indisputable, but I fear the basic question is framed in terms of "I know what I mean so everyone else should too."

There's also the question of WHERE the image is sharp. Test chart, flat to the edges? Wildlife shot, with a zebra's eye dead sharp and who cares about the rest?

Cheers,

R.
 
For me it's this one:

IMG_4023 by daftbear, on Flickr
The Zeiss Ultron is definitely a sharp looking lens. The chrome accents, tasteful font, the smartly sculpted tabs on the aperture ring... In the world of high fashion lenses, that concave front element is sure to grab everybody's attention. Looks pretty sharp to me. ;)
 
@RogerH
I don't know what I mean.:eek:.. I was just asking a simple Q from another forum, where, there was not much detail on how the test would be conducted.

just found out a few more details (urged by everyone on this forum who have asked good questions about different qualifiers)

The competition will be photographing a standard ISO Sharpness Test Chart to fill the frame. 4:3 or 3:2 ratio has not been set yet. depending on FL, 10-20 feet?

Not sure if "Overall" (Average), "Center", or "Center & Corner" results will be the final factor.

Good point about "Flat Field" or not.

Again, I am not conducting this competition, just asking for a lens that you consider sharp (est).

Since many shooters here do have or have used some of finest lenses made...So, I value your input.
 
well, you might just buy a very old lithography machine, take the lens out, sell the rest for parts and recover your costs to get under the 4000 limit :)
then you def'ly get the sharpest lens.
At least for that single wavelength.
 
ferider said:
Three points:

1) No 35mm or smaller sensor has been built yet to match the resolution available from many modern lenses. I can give you at least a handful of lenses that are "sharper" than any 35mm sensor. On top of this list is the ZM 25/2.8.

2) "Sharp" has no meaning unless you specify desired contrast as well.

3) As noted above you have to define object distance. Then again, for anything else but infinity, the camera comes into play, via inaccurate mirror or rangefinder alignment, or for a finder/mirror-less camera via accuracy of focus mechanism. When you focus peak, what's your resolution in pixel ? MTF charts and serious resolution tests are usually done using focus bracketing. Which your "Gedankenexperiment" does not account for.

Roland.
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I have posted these Q's on the other forum... I too would like to know the responses...
 
DNG said:
@RogerH
I don't know what I mean.:eek:.. I was just asking a simple Q from another forum, where, there was not much detail on how the test would be conducted.

just found out a few more details (urged by everyone on this forum who have asked good questions about different qualifiers)

The competition will be photographing a standard ISO Sharpness Test Chart to fill the frame. 4:3 or 3:2 ratio has not been set yet. depending on FL, 10-20 feet?

Not sure if "Overall" (Average), "Center", or "Center & Corner" results will be the final factor.

Good point about "Flat Field" or not.

Again, I am not conducting this competition, just asking for a lens that you consider sharp (est).

Since many shooters here do have or have used some of finest lenses made...So, I value your input.
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Hang on. You DON'T know what you mean. So you don't know what they mean either. So what is the point of the question?

I've used LOTS of sharp lenses -- which is why I consider the question valueless.

Cheers,

R.
 
My 50 lux ASPH seems to be the sharpest lens that I own and from what I am reading is a contender in this contest. However, my 35 pre-A lux is my favorite and most used lens. Other things do matter...
Pete
 
Roger Hicks said:
Hang on. You DON'T know what you mean. So you don't know what they mean either. So what is the point of the question?

I've used LOTS of sharp lenses -- which is why I consider the question valueless.

Cheers,

R.
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Hi Roger,
Talking of valueless questions, what did you drink with dinner today? Have you finished the short story you were writing? How is your wife's health?
 
D.J. said:
Hi Roger,
Talking of valueless questions, what did you drink with dinner today? Have you finished the short story you were writing? How is your wife's health?
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1 Cahors

2 Yes

3 Better, thank you

At least those are ANSWERABLE questions. What was your point?

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Hang on. You DON'T know what you mean. So you don't know what they mean either. So what is the point of the question?

I've used LOTS of sharp lenses -- which is why I consider the question valueless.

Cheers,

R.
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Don't spin what I said...

I was asked a simple Q, I asked that same Q here, You all asked me to be more detailed, I have been more detailed,
  • You NOW know, a Standard Sharpness Chart will be used,
  • you also NOW know that the framing will be to fill the VF with the chart,
  • You Now know that LIVE VIEW will used to focus in MF Mode.
  • You NOW know that the chart IS THE basis for lens sharpness.
  • You NOW know the same camera will be used for the test.
The sensor may have a play in it... but, probably a marginal part, since, any sensor will still show similar results, albeit even though it may record less.... (IE: as long as every lens is tested on the same camera--hence a camera that can mount ANY lens. A NEX can not, An m4/3 can). BUT, it will work across the board for all the lenses. So, the final results as far as the ORDER of sharpness of each lens will not change. #1 in sharpness, will remain #1 regardless of the sensor. As long as ALL the lenses are tested on the same house.
 
I can't believe that the mighty Industar-61LD hasn't been mentioned yet. Sharp as can be, and $4000 will get you over 100 of them.
 
DNG said:
Don't spin what I said...

I was asked a simple Q, I asked that same Q here, You all asked me to be more detailed, I have been more detailed,
  • You NOW know, a Standard Sharpness Chart will be used,
  • you also NOW know that the framing will be to fill the VF with the chart,
  • You Now know that LIVE VIEW will used to focus in MF Mode.
  • You NOW know that the chart IS THE basis for lens sharpness.
  • You NOW know the same camera will be used for the test.
The sensor may have a play in it... but, probably a marginal part, since, any sensor will still show similar results, albeit even though it may record less.... (IE: as long as every lens is tested on the same camera--hence a camera that can mount ANY lens. A NEX can not, An m4/3 can). BUT, it will work across the board for all the lenses. So, the final results as far as the ORDER of sharpness of each lens will not change. #1 in sharpness, will remain #1 regardless of the sensor. As long as ALL the lenses are tested on the same house.
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No spinning. There are still endless unanswered questions. You're probably going to be using a lens designed for one format on another, so edge sharpness WILL vary; the 'frame filling' requirement is effectively arbitrary; optimum aperture still appears to be absent from the considerations; I do not recall any comments about % contrast; Nyquist considerations have not been mentioned as far as I recall; as far as I can see, your chums' 'test' will at best give a subjective and flawed result for one camera that most people don't use. What is the value of this test?

I apologize if any of the above points has been addressed, and I've not noticed. Please don't let me discourage you from investigating. The results might indeed be of very slight interest to a few people with access to the same lenses and camera (though of course the camera will probably be obsolete shortly). But what is anyone hoping to demonstrate that is of any widespread or real-world value?

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
No spinning. There are still endless unanswered questions. You're probably going to be using a lens designed for one format on another, so edge sharpness WILL vary; the 'frame filling' requirement is effectively arbitrary; optimum aperture still appears to be absent from the considerations; I do not recall any comments about % contrast; Nyquist considerations have not been mentioned as far as I recall; as far as I can see, your chums' 'test' will at best give a subjective and flawed result for one camera that most people don't use. What is the value of this test?

I apologize if any of the above points has been addressed, and I've not noticed. Please don't let me discourage you from investigating. The results might indeed be of very slight interest to a few people with access to the same lenses and camera (though of course the camera will probably be obsolete shortly). But what is anyone hoping to demonstrate that is of any widespread or real-world value?

Cheers,

R.
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Fair Enough, when amateurs try this, many points are not considered as you said.

Like many answers, If the lens suits my sharpness values, it is a sharp lens.
 
Lenses that have been suggested..
Again, not after MF sharpness.... After a more "NORMAL" sensor use here.
That most people can afford.
  • It is also not for the greatest Boken (which is a highly personal choice, and depends on what the photographer wants in effect). Which can't be chart tested.
  • It is just for a "Clinical Sharpness" which can be tested.
  • It is not for Color Quality (Again, a personal choice).
  • Although, Sharpness of a lens may also play a roll in what lens you use, it can still be chart tested against other lenses, and each lens can be set in an order of "Clinical Sharpness"
  • I know many here buy very expensive lenses, and don't want to hear or see that the high cost spent, did not buy them the sharpest lens... I get that.
This is just for fun, and maybe to kill some spare time amongst a few photographers who just want to do this, and see what happens. BUT, the test will be in a controlled studio area. It may not be with $10k worth of lighting gear... as long as all the lights are the same color quality, and the exposures are all the same at each f/stop.. and other variables will made as small as possible to get constant results...

Lens to be considered so far... if they can found by fellow photographers, and or rent.

Canon EF85mm F/1.2L II
Contax G 45mm f/2
Contax G 90mm f/2.8
Leica 75mm f/2.5
Voigtlander 75mm LTM
Olympus M 45mm f/1.8
Olympus M 75mm f/1.8
Leica 50mm f/1.4 ASPH
Leica 180 APO Telyt
Leica 100mm APO macro Elmarit R
Zeiss 100mm macro Planar ZF
Voigtlander 125 APO Lanthar
 
Contarex Planar? Icarex Ultron?

For some reason I can't think of many lenses that cost over $4000...(well not ones you'd use on a 35mm still camera) wouldn't this be alot more entertaining if it were lenses under $1000? Or even under $500?

Or how about this? Sharpest lenses under $100... everybody buys a lens off of ebay or some other online retailer so we can be sure of what they paid for it - each person mails their lens to a (single designated) disinterested tester, and then maybe to make it even more amusing, the person who bought the sharpest under $100 lens wins all of the other lenses.:D
 
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