Shipping Insurance - The Gag

[bmattock]

Well, after many years buying trinkets on eBay (way too many), I finally got burned by the US Post Office. Not a seller - I've had my share of 'mint' cameras that were mint if one defines 'mint' as only having been run over by a small truck. No, that I'm used to. This is outright ripoff city.

Last two purchases - which there have been precious few of since I just discovered I'm broke and in debt up to my eyeballs - have failed to arrive at my home.

Checked with sellers after three weeks had gone by. Both swore they sent them US Postal Mail - Priority Mail. Both have good feedback - one has sold to G-Man, he got his package (G-man, yes, it's the Lynx 14 - never showed up).

I went over to the local post office on Saturday to check and see if they might have my packages hiding in the back or something - no dice.

They said 'you should have bought insurance.'

I told my coworkers about this - they said 'you should have bought insurance.'

OK, look. Insurance is to ensure that your package does not arrive DAMAGED. The POSTAGE is to ensure that it actually arrives.

When I buy a car, if I don't buy insurance on it, can the dealer just not give me the car? If I buy a house, and don't buy insurance on it - can the seller refuse to give me what I paid for?

I don't understand this mentality - insurance to make sure the US Post Office does their freaking job? If I don't bribe them with insurance, it is OK if they steal from me?

Some gag - they've got people believing that you buy insurance to make sure they don't take your mail and run off with it. What, pray, is the POSTAGE for then?

Anyway, that's my rant for tonight. I wasn't going to say anything, but [deleted] knows how to get up my sleeve, and I'm half in the bag anyway.

In any case, looks like I'm hosed. The first seller I am convinced is telling the truth - I just take the loss and move on. The second seller ignored four emails from me, then answered all of them in the same night after I filed a Paypal beef, then accused me of trying to rip him off. Now he's in the pleading mode, having grokked that Paypal is going to twist his snarglies. Him, I make give me a refund. But in any case, it's some postal worker who's getting away with petty theft here.

Argh. Insurance. Scam! Bribery! Other bad words!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[phototone]

The most you could expect from the USPS is a refund on the postage, if the package is lost. I believe that is the extent of their liability. The insurance is to guarantee the contents.

 

[bmattock]

The contents did not arrive, like the box in which the contents were encased.

My belief is that the insurance is to guarantee that the contents arrive in the condition in which they were sent, not to guarantee that they arrived at all.

If that were the case, the postal employees could simply empty all boxes and deliver them sans contents - and claim they had violated no law and owed no refund. I didn't pay postage on a box, I paid postage on a box and contents. The postage was to ensure arrival, the insurance is to ensure condition.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[gelmir]

Ho I should have read this earlier, because I've asked someone for shipping with insurance... According to you, it seems to be little useful 🙁 I'm crossing my fingers, hoping the postage will arrive safely.

But did somebody yet experience a refund following a postage's lost ?

 

[taffer]

But did somebody yet experience a refund following a postage's lost ?

Yes, I did.

It took more than six months, but finally both US-Spain postal systems arrived to the agreement that there was no trace at all of the specific parcel entering Spain.

The seller received a refund for the insured amount and then sent me the refund for that plus shipping charges, now I have a bunch of US dollars over my desk 🙂 Well, only $68...

Sadly, seems I'll have to start it all again with another parcel coming from Canada that has not shown up here in two months :bang:

But Bill, after some other episodes with various parcels, I fully understand you.

 

[bmattock]

Ho I should have read this earlier, because I've asked someone for shipping with insurance... According to you, it seems to be little useful 🙁 I'm crossing my fingers, hoping the postage will arrive safely.

But did somebody yet experience a refund following a postage's lost ?

I've received over 500 packages from eBay since 1996 (I was an early adopter), according to my feedback. Haven't had a problem until now - the last two packages have failed to show up.

I doubt you'll have a problem. Seems local - we got a new carrier in our neighborhood, the mail stopped showing up until 7 p.m. in some cases, and packages quit arriving. At the same time, I have received packages intended for other people and had to go deliver them myself. In one case, I had to argue with the carrier - she was SURE it was for me - wrong name, wrong street name, wrong number, everything was wrong. Don't know where she got the idea it was mine.

So I have to presume my packages got delivered elsewhere, to less then honest people. Or, we have a dishonest postal employee now.

My complaint is just that people keep sighing and telling me 'should have bought insurance' on the packages - my anger is that it sounds like a bribe to me - what, if I don't buy insurance, I can't expect my packages to arrive? That's extortion, and that's illegal.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I shipped a $350 item to Austria a year ago. It did not arrive, and I submitted the insurance claim. Within three weeks the item came back to me, intact. Time away from me was almost two months. Turns out the buyers parents refused the shipment to the house as they did not want to pay customs/tax. The buyer paid for my cost for the return shipment, and to ship the item back to Austria. Made it safe and sound. Last month I got a statement from the Post Office with a form to make good on the insurance. $350! I did ask for payment claim, I was not out anything.

 

[bmattock]

Both of these packages were from the USA to the USA. No customs, no red tape, they just never showed up. One seller claims he sent his with 'delivery confirmation required' and he's searching for the receipt the post office sent him. I don't know what good it will do when he finds it. I don't want a refund - if I wanted that, I would have just kept my money. I want the cameras I bought. But I suppose that's too much to ask, since I failed to pay the Post Office bribe - which everyone here seems to think is to ensure delivery as well.

Am I the only one here who is clear on the concept of what 'insurance' is for?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Bill,
After seeing the news video of the Air Cargo loading crews playing basketball with the packages at Christmas Time, I think I know what insurance is for!

"Face it Flounder, You Trusted us!"

 

[rbiemer]

This really sucks, Bill! I'm not sure whether I should hope that your new carrier is stupid or dishonest...Tough call but one of those is eventually fixable.
I also understand the difference between postage and insurance.
I sold a camera to another RFF member and I just got an email that he finally got his camera. Took 45 days. I was getting worried. I would have happily refunded his $ but that wouldn't have truly made it right.
I also am mostly underwhelmed by the USPS tracking system. A differnt package got to where it was going in good shape and in OK time BUT the tracking showed that the package was still in the back of my local post office until the box was signed for--when I've tracked stuff shipped by UPS, I can usually see each step in the journey and get a pretty close estimate of when I will be seeing it.
None of this helps you I know, but know that we're rooting for you!
Rob

 

[bmattock]

Hey, thanks, guys. I'm just ticked off, and more so since I complained to the post office and their attitude was essentially - should have bought insurance. That's just wrong.

I'll get over it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've read the comic strip "BC" since I was about 10. One from the '60s that still sticks out in my mind is the Post Office rock. I think Wiley ran the post office, might have been Peter.

Customer walks up to the Post Office Rock to send a package.

"Would you like the Special 4th Class Service?"

"What is that?"

"We throw it into the middle of the road and hope the recipient stumbles across it."

These days it seems to be:
"Do you want delivery confirmation?"
"What's That?"
"We drop your package into this box, and if the recipient manages to finds it, he has to sign this receipt."

 

[Pherdinand]

I've received over 500 packages from eBay since 1996[...]
In one case, I had to argue with the carrier - she was SURE it was for me - wrong name, wrong street name, wrong number, everything was wrong. Don't know where she got the idea it was mine.

Well, ...maybe from those 500 deliveries?😀

Sorry Bill, this really sucks, and i agree w you 100% that it should have nothing to do with insurance.

 

[felipe]

Bill, hope it arrives after all, maybe the seller just didn't write the adress clearly enough for an "untrained USPS contractor eye"...

As to your comment about insurance being sort of a bribe, I absolutely agree, the same thing applies to the "Deutsche Post".
Service and Reliability used to set them apart from the competition, now it's the other way round AND the competition is cheaper.
The problem seems to be yet again the contractors, there have been far too much incidents lately with contractors stealing truckloads of parcels.
The Deutsche Post is drastically cutting down jobs and outsorcing e.g. parcel delivery to other companies, I guess USPS is doing the same.
This is not going to work the way they want it to and if they don't change their attitude/commitment it will backfire. Customers aren't that stupid. (I hope)

cheers,
Phil

 

[oftheherd]

Bill, hope those yet arrive. Big time bummer. I agree with you completely! What a sad commentary when you have to pay extra to get people to do their job. Unfortunately, that isn't just with the USPS. Sad really.

 

[cbass]

Bill, I feel for you. Sometimes the US Postal system functions well, other times.... :bang: I hope these are two isolated incidents.

A few words about the concept of insurance (which happens to be my "real" job - I actually write insurance contracts for a living). I'm no expert on the postal transit contracts, but as I understand the basics of property insurance contracts, they are to indemnify the buyer or owner (Bill) if the goods he bought suffer loss or damage during shipment. The goods must be damaged by the peril(s) specified in the contract. Each party also has responsibilities under that contract (such as paying the premium and providing proof of loss, for example) which must be fufilled before a claim may be paid.

As far as I know, the insurance contract has nothing to do with actually ensuring the safe delivery, or any delivery, of said goods. However, the contract may indemnify the owner if the goods are lost in transit (a/k/a "mysterious disppearance"). As always, it pays to read the insurance contract first, if you can.

Does all this talk about insurance justify the fact that I posted this from my office? Of course it does 😀 ! Enjoy your day, everyone!

 

[Nick R.]

My father, who works in the USPS bulk handling facility, told me a while back that the best thing to do when shipping a parcel is to get insurance. Because there's actual money involved, an insured package is accountable all the way down the line. If it goes missing, they're going to know the last person responsible for it. He says theft is rampant in the facility. It's not unusual to see people taken out in handcuffs. Usually they're not charged with a crime but just fired. It avoids the bad publicity.

 

[bmattock]

Bill, I feel for you. Sometimes the US Postal system functions well, other times.... :bang: I hope these are two isolated incidents.

A few words about the concept of insurance (which happens to be my "real" job - I actually write insurance contracts for a living). I'm no expert on the postal transit contracts, but as I understand the basics of property insurance contracts, they are to indemnify the buyer or owner (Bill) if the goods he bought suffer loss or damage during shipment. The goods must be damaged by the peril(s) specified in the contract. Each party also has responsibilities under that contract (such as paying the premium and providing proof of loss, for example) which must be fufilled before a claim may be paid.

As far as I know, the insurance contract has nothing to do with actually ensuring the safe delivery, or any delivery, of said goods. However, the contract may indemnify the owner if the goods are lost in transit (a/k/a "mysterious disppearance"). As always, it pays to read the insurance contract first, if you can.

Does all this talk about insurance justify the fact that I posted this from my office? Of course it does 😀 ! Enjoy your day, everyone!

You're absolutely right. However, my objection is to the fact that the Postal Service has done the public the disservice of teaching them that if you really want something TO ARRIVE, you should buy insurance. Like they're not obligated to actually perform their contractual function unless you do. And people shrug and buy the insurance. This is a form of extortion, and it is illegal. Just my rant.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[XAos]

I have a moral problem with "2nd party insurance" as well. For "insurance" to be insurance and not "protection money" it should be from a 3rd party. The carrier is already responsible for the package.

UPS I'm convinced is just inept, not necessarily evil. ExCon on the other hand, has twice delivered my packages to the wrong house on my street (half mile away, not next door) taking 4 attempts to do so. In one case (a scanner) the item was shipped in the factory advertsing box "Hey, I'm a PC attachment that anybody can use" but my neighbor was kind enough to bring it to me. I'm currently expecting a shipment from them today, and saw that it was marked "Bar code unreadable - Label replaced" in Charlotte. Which sounds ominous, even though it's only some tanks and reels. I'm thinking either its damaged or just stolen outright.

I'll take my chances on bumbling brown.

 

[bmattock]

My father, who works in the USPS bulk handling facility, told me a while back that the best thing to do when shipping a parcel is to get insurance. Because there's actual money involved, an insured package is accountable all the way down the line. If it goes missing, they're going to know the last person responsible for it. He says theft is rampant in the facility. It's not unusual to see people taken out in handcuffs. Usually they're not charged with a crime but just fired. It avoids the bad publicity.

That's a sad indictment, but thanks for the information. I believe you.

I frankly believe that there is less crookery in the Post Office than in the airline industry. I never had packages go missing before - that's a pretty good record. When I traveled for a living, I had stuff taken from my checked luggage all the time - really, on a consistant basis.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks