Shooting Eastman (Double-X) 5222 in the Leica

mfunnell said:
My uncle worked as a crop duster back in the days (1950s-1970s) when real men didn't mess with all that 'ealth 'n' saftey rubbish. "What harm could a bit of insecticide do? Are you an insect?" He died aged 44 leaving a widow, four children and a much wider family who miss him still.

Read those materials saftey data sheets. Pay attention and do as they tell you.

...Mike
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Thanks, Mike. Your uncle's life is a powerful illustration of why we should be careful with chemicals. When I was younger, I used to stick my hands in the developing trays in the darkroom, and I didn't wear gloves when processing film (some chemicals always leaks out of those tanks when you agitate!). I started developing bad allergies, and even today am sensitive to a lot of chemicals, not just photo chemicals, because of being dumb. My son was about 4 yrs old at the time (he is 16 now), and I got out of the darkroom by getting a film scanner and learning Photoshop, and started wearing gloves when developing film.
 
Its easy to give such advice when its someone else's life you're endangering
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I'm not endangering a single person here nor am I responsible for whatever road they take - so don't put those words in my mouth, chief.


I started developing bad allergies, and even today am sensitive to a lot of chemicals
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Yeah, but that's metol sensitization - not mixing in Pyro powder to your spaghetti.

Common sense guys. You're treating PMK like it's Benzene.
 
clayne said:
I'm not endangering a single person here nor am I responsible for whatever road they take - so don't put those words in my mouth, chief.




Yeah, but that's metol sensitization - not mixing in Pyro powder to your spaghetti.

Common sense guys. You're treating PMK like it's Benzene.
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Sorry, but you are endangering someone by responding to his request for info on Pyro with dangerously false information. As for Benzene, it is the base upon which almost all developing agents, including Metol, Hydroquinone, p-aminophenol, and pyrogallol are built. Pyrogallol's real name is 1,2,3 trihydroxybenzene. The name reflects the fact that it is a benzene ring with OH bonded to it on the #1, #2, and #3 bonding points on the ring (benzene, which is ring shaped, has 6 places other chemicals can bond to it).
 
Seriously? Are you really going to reach that far?

Next thing you'll be telling people I'm giving them life-endangering information for recommending potassium-ferricyanide bleach since the cyanide could be decoupled from the ferric bond via a ridiculously strong acid.

You're equating benzene with development agents purely based on the fact that it's a hydrocarbon derivative.

WEAK in more ways than one.
 
Honestly, I wasn't going to take clayne's advice, no offense to him intended but I've seen his posts and they are often flippant and not thorough in written thought, nor obvious thought before the writing. That's why I asked twice.

Clayne you have to realize that not everyone have years of experience handling chemicals "common sense" isn't common for everyone, and I had no idea that the powder was dangerous, I've never mixed any powder developer ever before, this is my first time, so you should think about those kinds of things in your response to people. Especially don't assume that others have your knowledge, always assume that people know NOTHING and start from scratch for this kind of stuff, step by step as if I am totally new (as I am).

Thanks to everyone else, I agree, I will do it outside, however the humidity is high right now and I mean REALLY high, so I'm afraid to open the containers in this 90-100 degree temps and over 70 percent humidity... Hopefully when the chemistry comes it will be less...

Thanks again!

~Stone~ The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
clayne said:
Seriously? Are you really going to reach that far?

Next thing you'll be telling people I'm giving them life-endangering information for recommending potassium-ferricyanide bleach since the cyanide could be decoupled from the ferric bond via a ridiculously strong acid.

You're equating benzene with development agents purely based on the fact that it's a hydrocarbon derivative.

WEAK in more ways than one.
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Pyrogallol itself is very toxic. You're just making yourself look like an even bigger idiot. I stand by what I said; telling someone a chemical of known toxicity doesn't require handling precautions is unethical. Thankfully, the guy you were advising has already stated that he has no respect for you based on your posting history.
 
Yes I have The Film Developing Cookbook too. It's from 1998. The Darkroom Cookbook is from 1994, and it's a different read. Glad I have both of them.

Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Look also for The Film Developing Cookbook, written by Steve Anchell and Bill Troop. It is all about film developers and chemistry. I bought mine over a decade ago and it is still something I pick up just to read. Fascinating book!
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From Ilford:

Mixing Instructions
Note Photographic chemicals are not hazardous when used correctly. It is recommended that gloves, eye protection and an apron or coverall are worn when handling and mixing all chemicals.
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There is big difference in handling a chemical a few times and handling it every day. Kitchen? Not a great idea in my mind, but if one is careful, clean and does this a few times a year probably not likely to cause any problems. My opinion. I wear gloves and have good ventilation in my darkroom. Mixing chemistry outdoors is certainly not an option in Vermont for a good part of the year and to my mind seems like overkill. I've known two people who've had problems from long term photo chemical exposure. Both of them worked in darkrooms 40 hours a week long before ventilation, gloves or smoke-free workplaces were even considered. One has some depigmentation to his fingers but that's all. The other has mild asthma. I know far more people who have worked in the same situation without any problems. Risk is obviously different for each of us. Pyro was in regular use in many darkrooms where there was inadequate or no ventilation for many years. Likewise plenty of folks have used it without gloves and I'm sure plenty have had a cigarette break after mixing it. It is not automatically a death sentence. Read up on how to use it safely and make your own decision if it is worth the risk.

There are many chemicals in my darkroom that could potentially be dangerous if I was dumb and didn't follow simple rules of cleanliness. Mixing toners and acids for example. SImple, careful attention to what one is doing while mixing and after one is done when cleaning up will minimize any potential harm. Knowledge is the key here. A forum is certainly not a reliable source for information of this kind. Your nearest university will have a chemical safety or oversight person who can rationally and dispassionately discuss the proper handling and possible dangers of the chemicals you are considering and point you toward further resources for understanding this subject.

This book is a good starting point for anyone concerned enough to read up on the potential hazards of the materials they use in photography. It is likely somewhat dated now, but is a place to start.

And don't forget, silver is toxic.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Pyrogallol itself is very toxic. You're just making yourself look like an even bigger idiot. I stand by what I said; telling someone a chemical of known toxicity doesn't require handling precautions is unethical. Thankfully, the guy you were advising has already stated that he has no respect for you based on your posting history.
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Careful, I never said I didn't respect him, just that based on his posts sometimes he can make inaccurate or flippant judgements or comments. I'm not out to hurt people's feelings just to be honest. I try to respect everyone on the forums, most people know more than me, and he obviously does have years of experience over me and knows a lot, he just doesn't share it in a manner that is helpful TO ME it doesn't make his information invalid, just not on my level.

Sorry just wanted to clarify.

And thanks to the other poster who took info from Ilford.

~Stone~ The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
I have used PMK and Pyrocat HD for years. Mixing it demands respect - but once in suspension in water it is OK. Do use a mask and gloves when handling it. When you are measuring it out - use a container that can be closed to store it - even for the brief moment between, weighing it and mixing it. Wash and clean anything you used thoroughly. The powder smells strongly of phenol and as stated, the dust is toxic. Once you have it mixed up, it is not to bad, but avoid getting any of it on your skin. Once advantage is that you dont have to do this often - a little Pyro goes a long way!
As with any chemicals - just use common sense - keep kids,dogs and cats away from them and read up on basic precautions - but dont be paranoid about it either.
The high temperature and high humidity should not be a problem. It will be diluted with water anyway - and it prevents the dust from flying around. Find a corner of the garage, or even outside where you dont have strong wind and weigh/mix it (with the mask and gloves).
 
Tom A said:
I have used PMK and Pyrocat HD for years. Mixing it demands respect - but once in suspension in water it is OK. Do use a mask and gloves when handling it. When you are measuring it out - use a container that can be closed to store it - even for the brief moment between, weighing it and mixing it. Wash and clean anything you used thoroughly. The powder smells strongly of phenol and as stated, the dust is toxic. Once you have it mixed up, it is not to bad, but avoid getting any of it on your skin. Once advantage is that you dont have to do this often - a little Pyro goes a long way!
As with any chemicals - just use common sense - keep kids,dogs and cats away from them and read up on basic precautions - but dont be paranoid about it either.
The high temperature and high humidity should not be a problem. It will be diluted with water anyway - and it prevents the dust from flying around. Find a corner of the garage, or even outside where you dont have strong wind and weigh/mix it (with the mask and gloves).
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Thanks,

I was more concerned about the humidity getting into the STORED powder than the working solution... Would I have to worry the added moisture could ruin the powder?

~Stone | Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
raytoei@gmail.com said:
fyi. on those seeking to buy xx, i connected with rawstock, they tell me 400ft is 40 cents per foot before s/h. if you are interesteded, please contact rawstock at http://www.releasing.net/rawstock/

raytoei
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That's $160... How can they sell it for less than Kodak sells it direct? Kodak's price is around $175

~Stone | Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
StoneNYC said:
Thanks,

I was more concerned about the humidity getting into the STORED powder than the working solution... Would I have to worry the added moisture could ruin the powder?

~Stone | Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
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That could be a problem, but Pyro is not particularly hygroscopic - nothing like carbonate which turns into cement rather quickly.
Tom
 
Tom A said:
That could be a problem, but Pyro is not particularly hygroscopic - nothing like carbonate which turns into cement rather quickly.
Tom
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Would putting some silica gel packets on the inside of the lid top be acceptable?

Or would there be a potentially hazardous reaction to the Silca gel?

~Stone | Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
Silica is pretty inert - but be careful when disposing of them after they have been used - and do not re-heat them for further use!
 
Tom A said:
Silica is pretty inert - but be careful when disposing of them after they have been used - and do not re-heat them for further use!
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Haha yes I at least know enough not to try and heat poison filled silica in my food oven hahahhaah! But smart to say it just in case ;)

~Stone | Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
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