Shooting Eastman (Double-X) 5222 in the Leica

[filmtwit]

To be more exact, they are Bell and Howell perforations and not the normal KS perf's you find on most 35mm still film. They are nearly the same, but B&H perfs have closer tolerances and allow for less moment in a motion picture camera.

As a side note - I would note that I've found you can't use B&H perfed film in a Hass Xpan for instance, but never had any problems in any 35mm canon or Leica camera

It's a 35mm motion picture film, it pretty much has to have sprockets.

 

[ChrisLivsey]

hi. i read as many pages as i could in this most excellent thread...,
can i ask if the 35mm kodak 5222 film has sprockets ?

thanks

As stated sprocket holes not sprockets
What is doesn't have are edge frame numbers.

 

[randomm]

A bit of a side step here, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any source for 5222 in EU? Other than That's a Wrap in the UK, as I've been trying to buy some from them since May this year and we're still talking and I'm still yet to get a quote on stock and shipping...

I've seen some in ebay from NY, USA, but I'd rather buy from EU if just possible, just to skip the customs fees etc...

Also, does this stuff fog easily in postal xray, or are all the suppliers just paranoid about sending the stock over regular mail?

 

[haempe]

A bit of a side step here, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any source for 5222 in EU? Other than That's a Wrap in the UK, as I've been trying to buy some from them since May this year and we're still talking and I'm still yet to get a quote on stock and shipping...

I've seen some in ebay from NY, USA, but I'd rather buy from EU if just possible, just to skip the customs fees etc...

I tried to get some from Kodak Europe directly... but the price was exorbitant... I think 2EUR per meter or so...

Also, does this stuff fog easily in postal xray, or are all the suppliers just paranoid about sending the stock over regular mail?

I ordered some Arista Premium 400 from Freestyle and had no problems with fog...

 

[Tom A]

To be more exact, they are Bell and Howell perforations and not the normal KS perf's you find on most 35mm still film. They are nearly the same, but B&H perfs have closer tolerances and allow for less moment in a motion picture camera.

As a side note - I would note that I've found you can't use B&H perfed film in a Hass Xpan for instance, but never had any problems in any 35mm canon or Leica camera

Only cameras that has given me problems with the sprocket holes are X-Pan as mentioned, also Horizon 202 (kind of "packs" the film in the take-up area). Some motorized cameras, Leicaflex SL/SL2 Mot and one F36 motor on a Nikon F (the other ones worked fine!). I suspect that you could adjust the sprocket in the camera to handle it - or just shoot without the motor.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

hi, thanks.

i have ordered a 400ft reel.

i know i am getting myself into "trouble" here, as I do not even have a bulk loader.

currently my thinking is:

Do this in a dark bag.
: sacrifice a 24 exp roll.
: use the length extract the same length from the 5222 film.
: use a sticky tape to attach this into an empty canister.
: roll the film back into the cannister

My fear and uncertainty are:
* will i scratch the film in the process
* is there a better way to do this ? (eg. splitting into 4 x 100ft feeders)
* is my bag too small to so all this ?

on the 5222, i intend to use it as a 100iso ~ 400iso film. Though I read that it should be rated between 200 - 320 ?

thanks much!
raytoei
ps. my current siege mentality is going from bad to worse, first legacy pro 400 runs out, today kodak announced to the world that its cash flow is going to problematic. I currently have 100ft xp2, 400ft 5222, 60 rolls of legacy pro 400, 50 rolls of plus-x, 50 rolls of tmax 400 -120, and 20-30 of odd and ends. i shoot between 3 - 6 rolls a week. There is not enough to last me for 5 years. decisions decisions!

 

[Nokton48]

I have never used a changing bag, that will be extremely difficult for you. I pull out a 36 exposure length in total darkness, cut it with scissors from my back pocket, then carefully hand-wind it up, using the "TomA" method, into a reclosable-type film cartridge. I use "Kodak Snap Caps" that works well, and no scratches ever. I don't think I would try to do it inside a changing bag. I work on a formica worktable, in my darkened darkroom basement, at night (to be sure no lightleaks), so I have plenty of elbow room.

If you don't have a bulk loader, I'd get one, if you want to daylight load. Use the "plastic core" for another 100' roll, to spool up 100' of film, that would work. Then you could use your changing bag, to make up 100' rolls, if you have enough room inside it. Not something I would want to do myself, and I wouldn't try to tape anything in the dark. That is going to be difficult and frustrating!

I've loaded film using both methods, and both will work with 5222.

 

[maddoc]

Thanks for the tip of using "Kodak Snap Caps" !! I did not know about these but just found a box of ten snap caps at eBay and hope to use it with my M7, which does not have the key for Leica cassettes.

I have never used a changing bag, that will be extremely difficult for you. I pull out a 36 exposure length in total darkness, cut it with scissors from my back pocket, then carefully hand-wind it up, using the "TomA" method, into a reclosable-type film cartridge. I use "Kodak Snap Caps" that works well, and no scratches ever. I don't think I would try to do it inside a changing bag. I work on a formica worktable, in my darkened darkroom basement, at night (to be sure no lightleaks), so I have plenty of elbow room.

If you don't have a bulk loader, I'd get one, if you want to daylight load. Use the "plastic core" for another 100' roll, to spool up 100' of film, that would work. Then you could use your changing bag, to make up 100' rolls, if you have enough room inside it. Not something I would want to do myself, and I wouldn't try to tape anything in the dark. That is going to be difficult and frustrating!

I've loaded film using both methods, and both will work with 5222.

 

[Nokton48]

You're Welcome Gabor. But be very careful with the Snap Caps when loading and unloading cameras. If you accidentially drop the loaded Snapcap, the end cap will "pop off" :bang: ruining the roll. I know this from bitter experience.

I just finished an XX snapcap roll this weekend, in my motorized Minolta SRM, without any problems whatsoever. I always put the snapcaps into individual plastic film cans, for storage and travel, and handle the cartridges slowly and carefully. Just be diligent about the cassette possibly popping open, and you'll be fine. I use mine about six times, then pitch them.

Thanks for the tip of using "Kodak Snap Caps" !! I did not know about these but just found a box of ten snap caps at eBay and hope to use it with my M7, which does not have the key for Leica cassettes.

 

[maddoc]

Thanks for the tip !! Besides Leica / Nikon reloadable cassettes, I have used some cheap AP plastic ones with felt light seal and screw cap. The screw-cap when not properly and firmly closed also easily can open and fell off, had happen this a couple of times ...

You're Welcome Gabor. But be very careful with the Snap Caps when loading and unloading cameras. If you accidentially drop the loaded Snapcap, the end cap will "pop off" :bang: ruining the roll. I know this from bitter experience.

I just finished an XX snapcap roll this weekend, in my motorized Minolta SRM, without any problems whatsoever. I always put the snapcaps into individual plastic film cans, for storage and travel, and handle the cartridges slowly and carefully. Just be diligent about the cassette possibly popping open, and you'll be fine. I use mine about six times, then pitch them.

 

[john neal]

Gabor,

I have tried 400ft of Plus-X in a changing bag, and it's not easy - even in the oversize box-shape Clumet one that I have. Too much opportunity to either scratch the emulsion, or pinch the film, leaving a small crescent permanently in the carrier. Better to wind off 100ft and use a daylight loader - they are cheap enough on the 'bay.

Now I have 1000ft of 5222, things are even worse! I do have an Alden 200 loader though, which takes 200ft, so the effort to roll off enough to fill the loader lasts a long time

As to cassettes, I have never even seen a "Snap-Cap", but have tried several of the plastic types that are currently available - hated nearly all of them as the tops come off too easily. I bought 50 of the black metal ones from ebay, and they are OK, but soon get tired and need replacing. To be honest, the best ones I have are all from the last ever batch of XP1 that I bought in cassettes - they just keep on going! Time is coming when the velvet will wear out though, so I will be looking for something to replace them.

Best of luck with your efforts - I have run a couple of trial rolls of 5222 at 200 asa, but find that I'm either wildly overexposing (sunny f11) or over developing in D76. I just extracted the next roll from my Leica II and hope to process in Xtol in the next couple of days - I wonder if I will get something usable?

 

[maddoc]

John,

my only option is a changing back and my "stock" of XX will be used up soon ... Getting XX in 100ft rolls would be my best option but no luck so far. I use to bulk-load Tri-X (about 100 ft per month on average) and use only the Leitz and Nikon cassettes recently. Unfortunately they don`t work in my M7 so I need an alternative. Buying Tri-X 135-36 has become rather expensive in Japan and XX is not available easily in 135-36.

Maybe I will give 400ft a try since I have many 100ft metal canister and winding cores left.

Gabor

Gabor,

I have tried 400ft of Plus-X in a changing bag, and it's not easy - even in the oversize box-shape Clumet one that I have. Too much opportunity to either scratch the emulsion, or pinch the film, leaving a small crescent permanently in the film. Better to wind off 100ft and use a daylight loader - they are cheap enough on the 'bay.

Now I have 1000ft of 5222, things are even worse! I do have an Alden 200 loader though, which takes 200ft, so the effort to roll off enough to fill the loader lasts a long time

As to cassettes, I have never even seen a Snap-Cap, but have tried several of the plastic types that are currently available - hated nearly all of them as the tops come off too easily. I bought 50 of the black metal ones from ebay, and they are OK, but soon get tired and need replacing. To be honest, the best ones I have are all from the last ever batch of XP1 that I bought in cassettes - they just keep on going! Time is coming when the velvet will wear out though, so I will be looking for something to replace them.

Best of luck with your efforts - I have run a couple of trial rolls of 5222 at 200asa, but find that I'm either wildly overexposing (sunny f11) or overdeveloping in D76. I just extracted the next roll from my Leica II and hope to process in Xtol in the next couple of days - I wonder if I will get something usable?

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I pull out a 36 exposure length in total darkness, cut it with scissors from my back pocket, then carefully hand-wind it up, using the "TomA" method, into a reclosable-type film cartridge.

I just ordered two 400 foot cans of XX and can't wait to start shooting with it. The issue I'm thinking of is transferring the 400 feet into a 100ft bulk loader. One more step for creases, scratches and dust to become part of the equation. So I'm thinking I'll just directly load the film into canisters.
That said:
How do you get a good measure of the length of film it takes for 36 exposures? I guess I can understand if you have a good amount of space. My film changing room at home is a bit small, like a long closet and I have room to spool out a length of film but don't have an accurate measure.
My arm-span is 6ft even from fingertip to fingertip. I suppose I could just measure out that much and load in about 5.5ft. That equals over 30 exposures.

I live with a carpenter so I may wind up building a bulk loader that can take 400ft rolls directly and be used in daylight. That would be optimal.

Thank you all for the inspirational thread. I'm going to start at ASA250 developing in HC-110 then go from there. i want to do some caffeinol experimentation with XX as well.

Phil Forrest

 

[john neal]

John,

my only option is a changing back and my "stock" of XX will be used up soon ... Getting XX in 100ft rolls would be my best option but no luck so far. I use to bulk-load Tri-X (about 100 ft per month on average) and use only the Leitz and Nikon cassettes recently. Unfortunately they don`t work in my M7 so I need an alternative. Buying Tri-X 135-36 has become rather expensive in Japan and XX is not available easily in 135-36.

Maybe I will give 400ft a try since I have many 100ft metal canister and winding cores left.

Gabor

Gabor,

I would give it a try - with my big changing bag (it has spring loaded sides to hold the box shape) I found it fairly easy to wind off roughly 100ft to put into my Watson loader. If I do that twice, the remainder can go in the big Alden 200. The biggest thing to remember is to keep your fingers off the emulsion (maybe wear cotton gloves?).

The 1000ft reel is another matter though, much more difficult to handle as it has no side suports, and I'm a little concerned about dropping a few turns off the reel while manipulating it I had hoped to share this with some local RFF members, but I don't have any empty 100ft cans at the moment. I suppose I could set up a small business offering XX in 135-36 using the cheap metal cassettes from ebay....

My old film of choice would always have been Tri-X, but the price is just too high these days, even in 100ft cans. I have a small amount of Legacy Pro 400 asa left, and that's nice, but doesn't have the range of Tri-X (for me at least). I do like the Legacy Pro 100 (Acros), but that's all gone now at the suppliers - I think I have about 50ft left - hence the Plus-X purchase, but I'm told that is also discontinued?

Best of luck, and let us see your results.

 

[Freakscene]

Plus-X [] but I'm told that is also discontinued?

If you mean the movie film Eastman Kodak 5231 ('Plus-X'), yes, it is discontinued. For now, 135-36 format PX125 is still available but PX120 and larger formats are discontinued. But it's hard to imagine that Plus-X isn't next, given the much greater apparent popularity of TMax 100.

Marty

 

[Nokton48]

I have 120+ Kodak Snap Caps.

I have 120+ Kodak Snap Caps.

I hit all the local used photo shops, as well as Ebay.

I have 120+ Kodak Snap Caps on hand. Ten in a box, so more than enough for 400' of XX at one time. I precut the strips of masking tape, and stick them to the edge of my table. Assembly of the cartridges is slow and by feel only. Once again, here is the TomA method on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/profile?gl=CA&hl=en&user=TnTandMrB



I also have hoarded tossed-out 35mm cassettes, as well as 35 film cans, from local mini-labs. Those work well with Daylight bulk loaders. You also need extra 100' metal film cans, the plastic inner cores that come with 100' films, masking tape, scotch tape, and good scissors.

Not difficult but organization and diligence are required.

 

[Nokton48]

Today I ran eight rolls of XX in my eight-reel metal Nikor tank. Developer was ADOX Borax MQ, at ambient 20C in my darkroom, for nine minutes. Agitation ten inversions every minute, and the negs look just great. My RF Canons and Minolta SRTs like XX, it is really a great combo with old, classic lower-contrast lenses.

If XX is ever discontinued, I will load up my freezer well prior to the end. I have about 500' on hand right now, and 350' of the +X 5231. I develop Presto 400 Fuji, Tri-X, Agfapan 400, HP5, and XX all together in the same tank, and it comes out fine every time.

My goal for the winter months ahead is to get more stuff scanned and up here.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Nokton,
Is your favored developer for B&W ADOX Borax MQ then? I have yet to try it but I'm moving to a new, more photo friendly, apartment soon and after that I intend to start doing more experimentation. Until then I'm using HC-110 and D76.

I'm wondering how XX will take to Caffeinol as well. I guess I'll find out in a few weeks after the move.

Phil Forrest

 

[Nokton48]

Nokton,
Is your favored developer for B&W ADOX Borax MQ then?
Phil Forrest

Hi Phil,

Yes ADOX Borax MQ is my favored developer with XX, I also use the ADOX replenisher with it. Been with it for a couple of years now, and I have yet to be disappointed with it. Very cheap to make too, and it lasts at least six months for me before I pitch it. Very similar to D-76, as you probably know. The formulas I use are listed at the beginning of this thread.

Microdol-X is another I am about to try. It is available in the Legacy brand from Freestyle, and can be replenished, by mixing replenisher and adding Sodium Carbonate to the concentrated stock solution, per the Microdol-X instructions online from Kodak.

 

[varjag]

double-x, m4, konica waiwai 17mm lens


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