Shooting like Shorpy

V

VTHokiEE

Well-known
Local time
11:42 AM
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
411
I really like a lot of the pictures that I see on Shorpy. A lot of these shots are from 8x10 cameras, but the second example I linked says medium format negative though, is there a way I can duplicate this look with medium format?


or


I have a hard time describing the look, I feel like its related to low contrast, but I'm not certain if that is the only thing I'm seeing. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I tried searching RFF, but I didn't see anything similar, but if there is a thread please point me in that direction.

Thanks!

Edit: Seems like the pictures may have disappeared, but there are links embedded...
 
for that second shot, you could use a curves tool in LR or CS to anchor the black point and then lift the remainder of the curve above the diagonal line. You'd probably need 3 anchor points on the curve, all near the bottom to achieve this. The end result is an "S" that is long and lazy above the line with a very short tail below it, dipping below the line right near the bottom left. Either end of the curve would meet the diagonal at its terminus.

Edit: obviously talking here about processing a scanned neg in software. You'll need to hear from the darkroom experts for an analogue solution.
 
Supporting what Lynn said about digial PP . . . when I want to mimic the look of a particular image, the first thing to look at is the histogram. Try to reshape your histogram towards your model image .... then mash about with the sharpness, etc etc.

I will guess that a big part of the analog solutions will be "use this [____] film".
 
I suspect many of the Shorpy pictures were taken using bw film that has different spectral sensitivity to modern films - I think early films were orthochromatic and had reduced sensitivity to yellow, and these were superseded by panchromatic films (which also went through an evolutionary process, with differing spectral sensitivities) - but please don't take my word on that because I'm no expert on the evolution of bw emulsions! Someone like Roger would be better able to answer that.

So the question for modern bw films becomes, how to mimic the spectral sensitivity of the older emulsions, using filters (?).

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Panchromatic
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Orthochromatic
 
Thanks a lot!

lynnb said:
I suspect many of the Shorpy pictures were taken using bw film that has different spectral sensitivity to modern films - I think early films were orthochromatic and had reduced sensitivity to yellow, and these were superseded by panchromatic films (which also went through an evolutionary process, with differing spectral sensitivities) - but please don't take my word on that because I'm no expert on the evolution of bw emulsions! Someone like Roger would be better able to answer that.

So the question for modern bw films becomes, how to mimic the spectral sensitivity of the older emulsions.
Click to expand...

I had a feeling that something like this might be going on...
 
There's an interesting discussion on old bw movie film emulsions from the 1920s here, in which the spectral sensitivity of early films is outlined. Still films are also mentioned:

Posted 28 May 2010 - 04:47 PM by Bruce Watson

I come at this from the still photography perspective. Same emulsions, different formats.

What I remember is that there isn't a hard and fast definition for what "orthochromatic" really means. IOW, it means somewhat different things to different people. What most people agree on is that ortho films are unbalanced. That is, they are biased toward the blue end of the visual spectrum. Very blue sensitive, with sensitivity falling as the wavelengths get longer until there is little to no sensitivity at the red end of the spectrum.

The classic look of an ortho film shot outside is the white skies. The films were so sensitive to blue that the blue skies really exposed well -- to the point that you usually couldn't tell the difference between the bright blue skies and the white fluffy clouds in those skies -- it all looks white in the final image.

Over time we learned more about how to make films and emulsions. We learned how to make sensitizing dyes that would improve the "low end" of emulsions (the red end). We learned how to use multiple coatings to get multiple layers on the film, each layer with it's own properties. It's been decades since anyone made a single layer B&W film for example.

Panchromatic films (balanced response across the entire visual spectrum, more or less) became fairly widespread in the 1920s IIRC. This new technology was widely embraced.
Click to expand...
 
Where large format film really shines is in prints. If you like what you see on Shorpy, which is just a digital representation, you'll love holding an actual print. Other things that LF film negatives/prints gives you are:
- long tonal scale
- high resolution (an 8x10 negative is like a 300 MegaPixel sensor, or some such)

Panchromatic films were available by the early 1920s. The low contrast you are seeing is mostly due to uncoated lenses being used, type of print paper, and the preferences of the photographer when he exposed, developed, and printed.
 
Open shadow areas and overall high key. Nice control of a high contrast situation has given these the right look, in my opinion. Never liked the blacked out shadows and dark sky on a sunny day look. Makes the scene look like some other planet.

Plenty of exposure to keep the shadows open and a shortened dev. time to keep the highlights in check. That's the formula for this.
 
The Pictures you've shown as examples were made with panchromatic emulsions the first Honolulu Clipper probably shot on Agfa Isopan ( a great film) and a yellow filter. The second one Church of Meteorology: 1936 was made with a medium Format camera (Speed graphic variant) panfilm and a yellow filter.

The Pictures look good not because of the film of any special technique but because they have good composition plus a certain amount of nostalgia.
 
quick and dirty test using LR blue filter on an old Kodachrome:
15879114694_6343ca0703_o.jpg
 
DominikDUK said:
The Pictures look good not because of the film of any special technique but because they have good composition plus a certain amount of nostalgia.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with the nostalgia sentiment, but if I took these pictures the shadows would be very dark and blocked up. I believe there is something to the technique (but maybe not the film) which previous posters seemed to have keyed in on.
 
The dynamic range of these films is another factor you are seeing. Note you can see into the GMC truck's wheel well, and detect tie rods. Yet the flight mechanic on the top of the Clipper, in a white uniform and skylighted, is easy to make out. It doesn't look like a contrasty shot, because of the tonal range, but the blackest blacks are there, and dark shawdows are not blocked up. The whites are not blown out. This is how film is different than anything you can shoot, or post process, digitally.
 
VTHokiEE said:
Do you have a readily available example of this? I think I have a blue filter lying around that I had no idea what to do with.
Click to expand...

This is what I posted on another site ... the second shot has the blue filter

OK ... here you go ... d70, with the ASI f1.8/50 which I believe is multicoated ... daylight W/B, the fitter on the second required a stop and a half to get roughly the same exposure, I altered the shutter speed and left the aperture at f8 ... this is the B+W KB6 (I thought I had a darker blue filter somewhere, an Olympus 42mm tungsten to daylight)

PS I reset the centre of the input level to 2 in both images to make the response curve look 'normal' but didn't bother re-sharpaning or moving the black or white points


without-filter par Sparrow ... Stewart Mcbride, on ipernity


blue filter par Sparrow ... Stewart Mcbride, on ipernity
Click to expand...
 
And here is a shot I made with Ilford 125 (which can have a classic look, when handled right). Wholeplate, uncoated lens, no filter:

8026738547_02f01b4f56_b.jpg
 
VTHokiEE said:
I really like a lot of the pictures that I see on Shorpy. A lot of these shots are from 8x10 cameras, but the second example I linked says medium format negative though, is there a way I can duplicate this look with medium format?

I have a hard time describing the look, I feel like its related to low contrast....
Click to expand...

You can certainly get the look you want with Medium Format, but I'd try to get an older lens, uncoated if you can find one for those cameras. But trying to get the look of MF or LF on 35mm or digital will not be very succesful, though 10s of thousands of photographers are trying, if you know what a LF print looks like, you can tell.
 
To emulate the look of Orthofilm you have to use a Cyan filter, a blue filter comes Close but does not match the film 100% also regarding lynn's test he started with a saturated sky which would have been much lighter on an ortho neg and using an Emulator doesn't come close to the real effects of a filter on Film. But what it does illustrate very well is that early pan emulsions didn't have as much red sensitivity as modern Emulsions.

A factor that has been mentioned before is the uncoated lens, the lack of coating sometimes gives a pre-flashing (paper or neg flashing) like look, which results in open shadows and more highlight Details.

I have topartially disagree with the previous poster you can get the effect with MF film, the second Image was made with a medium format camera, you can't get the same result as the first Image though as the tonal range and transition of LF film especially 8x10 is much larger and smoother than MF or 35mm
 
Just out of curiosity I played around with a digital file that has similar light and subject to see if I could get close to the film look. The first pair of pictures are the 5D digital original and an adjusted colour temperature version; then a "straight" bw conversion of the original followed by the adjusted version in bw.

This is the service station at a small rural town, Emmaville, in NSW.

digital original
16501866685_8aa42337d3_z.jpg


colour temp adjusted
16315940667_284149fd94_z.jpg


original - no-frills bw conversion
16314415900_f1563ef249_z.jpg


colour temp adjusted - no-frills bw conversion
16500130751_28c059aba8_z.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom