shooting Trix in a dark bar

[Hjortsberg]

I'm gonna shoot a friend's band in a really dark bar. I want to shoot trix x, so I guess I would push it a stop, right.

400asa pushed one stop is 800asa. Is this correct?

400asa pushed two stops is 1600asa. Is this correct?

So If I decided to push one stop I would just set my external light meter to 800asa and set f-stop for that?

What is the downside of pushing film?

I'm no master photographer, just like to have fun.

Thanks.

 

[Timmyjoe]

When you push Tri-X you increase the contrast and grain. So you'll get high contrast, grainy images. I have pushed Tri-X to 3200 at times, for fun, and stand processed it. It does come out grainy and high contrast, but it is kinda cool.

Good luck and share the results with us.

 

[zauhar]

Just remember that when you develop, to specify the ISO you assumed!

I'm assuming you don't develop yourself. Also make sure that your selected lab knows what 'pushing' means.

Also in that scenario, spot meter.

Randy

 

[Hjortsberg]

thanks.

3200 is 3 stops, I assume.

I'll try it. I'll also have some Delta 3200 w/me.

cool!

 

[sreed2006]

You have the one-stop, two-stop ISO numbers correct. Tri-X shot at 800 ISO is developed the same as when shot at 400 ISO - no time difference, but still meter for 800 for consistency.

 

[zauhar]

You have the one-stop, two-stop ISO numbers correct. Tri-X shot at 800 ISO is developed the same as when shot at 400 ISO - no time difference, but still meter for 800 for consistency.

I see this remark frequently - so why is Tri-x not simply rated at 800?

I am going to assume that 'usable' density is obtained if you rate at 400 or 800, with the negatives a bit thin at 800 and dense at 400? I normally rate at 400 or 1600, have not experimented this way.

Randy

 

[KenR]

I've always processed 800 at a time in between 400 and 1600 - works for me. But whenever you do something this, you have to assume that your first attempt may not come out great. So, you may have to do it all over again. Good luck.

 

[sreed2006]

Here's a link to Kodak's data sheet. See page 6, right column, "Push Processing." It says, "Because of these films’ exposure latitude, you can underexpose by one stop and use normal processing times. Prints will show a slight loss in shadow detail."

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf

 

[MIkhail]

You may be interested in seeing a good examples of pushed film in bars and such. Buddy of mine in Moscow shot a long series of such pictures in 2004-2005, take a look. He pushed one or two stops.
This is one of the examples when "push" is very appropriate and plays on the theme well, in my opinion.

http://www.photographer.ru/nonstop/series.htm?id=6274

 

[Sid836]

You may be interested in seeing a good examples of pushed film in bars and such. Buddy of mine in Moscow shot a long series of such pictures in 2004-2005, take a look. He pushed one or two stops.
This is one of the examples when "push" is very appropriate and plays on the theme well, in my opinion.

http://www.photographer.ru/nonstop/series.htm?id=6274

Pretty awesome photos over there!

 

[mfogiel]

There are 2 more things you need to remember:
- set your lens to full aperture (lowest F stop)
- if you have light sources in the picture, meter 1 stop over ( i.e. instead of 1600 go down to 800), unless you spot meter or take an incident measurment
- last thing: there is no magic in pushing, what is dark will be black, only the brighter parts will be more dense

 

[lawrence]

What is the downside of pushing film?

An increase in contrast and grain. You lose shadow detail but in many situations you don't need that anyway. Tri-X is a great film to push. If you've got some D76 I'd recommend pushing to 1600 and developing for 11 minutes in the stock (undiluted) solution at 20C with four inversions every 30 seconds.

 

[MCTuomey]

You may be interested in seeing a good examples of pushed film in bars and such. Buddy of mine in Moscow shot a long series of such pictures in 2004-2005, take a look. He pushed one or two stops.
This is one of the examples when "push" is very appropriate and plays on the theme well, in my opinion.

http://www.photographer.ru/nonstop/series.htm?id=6274

Perfectly appropriate and well taken/processed, indeed.

 

[filmtwit]

You might try HC110 over D76 and definitely over rodenal to help control grain and contrast as a whole.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . What is the downside of pushing film? . . .

Loss of shadow detail, bigger grain, higher contrast.

Tonality is also different. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on the subject. When I was in my teens and early 20s I ALWAYS overdeveloped and underexposed my film (= pushing). It worked really well in bars, at concerts, etc., but not so well on the beach...

Incidentally, ISO/ASA refers to speed when the film is developed at a specific contrast. Unless you develop to that contrast, the working speed is not ISO/ASA, but EI or Exposure Index. This may seem like a pedantic and irrelevant point -- as long as you're happy with the exposure, who cares? -- but it's a useful distinction to remind you that you WON'T get the shadow detail with "pushed" films: as Kodak says of Tri-X (sreed's comment) "Because of these films’ exposure latitude, you can underexpose by one stop and use normal processing times. Prints will show a slight loss in shadow detail."

Cheers,

R.

 

[_goodtimez]

You may be interested in seeing a good examples of pushed film in bars and such. Buddy of mine in Moscow shot a long series of such pictures in 2004-2005, take a look. He pushed one or two stops.
This is one of the examples when "push" is very appropriate and plays on the theme well, in my opinion.

http://www.photographer.ru/nonstop/series.htm?id=6274

Wow nice photographs ! This seems to be a hard party over there 🙂 I bet you there were a couple headaches at the end.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I see this remark frequently - so why is Tri-x not simply rated at 800?

I am going to assume that 'usable' density is obtained if you rate at 400 or 800, with the negatives a bit thin at 800 and dense at 400? I normally rate at 400 or 1600, have not experimented this way.

Randy

Dear Randy,

By ISO criteria, the film is optimally exposed at 400 (not "dense") and thin but usable at 800.

Remember that ASA standards (precursors of ISO arithmetic, and themselves descendants of Kodak speeds from about 1940) were changed in about 1960 and film speeds "doubled" overnight. This reflected the rise of 35mm, where overexposure leading to less sharpness and bigger grain is much more important than with larger formats. Many LF users still give (at least) an extra stop because they prefer the tonality, and not a few Zone System users (where generous exposure is endemic) are saved by the enormous tolerance of most emulsions for overexposure.

There is no magic in ISO speeds: they are merely replicable, and are likely to give adequate shadow detail, unlike the speeds devised by marketing departments and the more deluded "experts" on photographic forums.

Cheers,

R.

 

[x-ray]

A few years ago when Tri x was reformulated I founf I had to rate it at 250 to get adequate shadow detail in HC110. I've shot quite a lot under very poor light and found the best combination at 800 & 1600 to be HP5 in Acufine. Most developers only increase highlight density causing high contrast. Shadows suffer and there's no detail in those areas. Acufine is one of the few developers that actually increase ISO. At 800 grain is very good and shadows are full and normal looking. Going to 1600 gives superb shadows and moderate grain. It's a far better combination for pushing than anything else Ive tried. You might even get good results at 3200.

Ethol UFG is another possible developer but I e always found Acufine to work better at high ISO.

 

[Andrea Taurisano]

Mikhail, I love your friend's work. He gets the best out of TriX, and there's a lot more of excellent stuff on that site.

You may be interested in seeing a good examples of pushed film in bars and such. Buddy of mine in Moscow shot a long series of such pictures in 2004-2005, take a look. He pushed one or two stops.
This is one of the examples when "push" is very appropriate and plays on the theme well, in my opinion.

http://www.photographer.ru/nonstop/series.htm?id=6274

 

[Lauffray]

Not to be academic, but the pushing actually happens when you develop. When you shoot TriX at 800 or 1600, you're just under exposing. So make sure you find yourself a developer formulated for push processing, like Xtol or Microphen