edodo
Well-known
I was wondering if shooting with the M3 was confortable with both eyes open. I have just ordered the HK 1.25 mag to install it on my M4 so it matches the M3 magnification. I have search here and there but cannot find the pros and cons. I have read that the 0.85 mag finder was not easy to shoot with both eyes open so as 0.90 is close to that I would like to hear from users here.
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alexz
Well-known
Well, I indeed used to shoot with both eyes open since my SLR days and now the habit got preserved with my M6, having said that I used to compose with my left eye albeit being right-handed so my other eye view gets blocked by the camera body (and that in turn helps me to keep the right eye open).
For what it worth...
For what it worth...
peter_n
Veteran
I have a 0.85 body and found it difficult. Then I got a 1.25x mag for a 0.72 body and tried it on the 0.85 and that works really well.
uhligfd
Well-known
Comfort is in the eye of the beholder, namely YOU. What feels good to you will surface in time.
So why do you have to ask? Don't be afraid of conventions and the like. You are using a rangefinder with film after all! Be confident and comfortable in your own way. That is what rangerfinder shooting is all about, is it not?
So why do you have to ask? Don't be afraid of conventions and the like. You are using a rangefinder with film after all! Be confident and comfortable in your own way. That is what rangerfinder shooting is all about, is it not?
like2fiddle
Curious
I don't know if this will help you, but I briefly owned a Bessa R3M with a little wider finder than the M3 and found that I could not use it with both eyes open. I find the M2 finder at .72 much easier to use both eyes open.
Avotius
Some guy
ive tried shooting with both eyes open with different rangefinders, I found it too hard to concentrate on the focusing patch, I dont know how some people do this.
edodo
Well-known
Peter, please tell me if it is confortable with your 0.72 body+1.25 mag. I am sure that the 0.85*1.25=1 should do well!
Let me clarify, I was asking if focusing with the right eye having at the same time the left eye open was confortable, and if the 0.10 difference in magnification wasn't difficult to accomodate because with just the 0.72 mag it is just not good enough for me.
I was presuming that the M3 users here would give me straight answers, maybe I should change the thread title...
Let me clarify, I was asking if focusing with the right eye having at the same time the left eye open was confortable, and if the 0.10 difference in magnification wasn't difficult to accomodate because with just the 0.72 mag it is just not good enough for me.
I was presuming that the M3 users here would give me straight answers, maybe I should change the thread title...
VinceC
Veteran
This is something you can practice, and also depends on which is your dominant eye.
In high school, my most absorbing hobby was backyard astronomy, and all the books and magazines recommended looking through telescopes with your dominant eye whilst keeping the other eye open to minimize eye fatigue. With time, you learn to concentrate on the image seen by your dominant eye, a situation made easier by your generally dark surroundings. So I had perhaps hundreds of hours of practice doing this before I took up photography a few years later. So I can also keep both eyes open with an SLR and concentrate on the image seen by my dominant eye.
In high school, my most absorbing hobby was backyard astronomy, and all the books and magazines recommended looking through telescopes with your dominant eye whilst keeping the other eye open to minimize eye fatigue. With time, you learn to concentrate on the image seen by your dominant eye, a situation made easier by your generally dark surroundings. So I had perhaps hundreds of hours of practice doing this before I took up photography a few years later. So I can also keep both eyes open with an SLR and concentrate on the image seen by my dominant eye.
markinlondon
Elmar user
Avotius said:
I think the idea is to prefocus and then do the Cartier-Bresson dance to move with your subject. I sometimes shoot with both eyes open but usually when zone focused with a 35mm. All my RF's have been around .7x magnification.
edodo
Well-known
I don't know what is my dominant eye, really... I just know that with my SLRs I like to shoot with my left eye so that I can leave my right eye open minimizing as you said eye fatigue. With my IIIa and 50mm finder SBOOI I can shoot both eye open and its a real nice experience and I like to use my left eye because I feel like I can compose with the geometrical lines in a more sensitive and artistical way because I am aware that the right side of my brain is made for that 
(the left eye is related to the right side of the brain!)
With the leica M4 I don't like to shoot with my left eye because the wind lever gets in the way, and as long as I don't have a leicavit, it will stay that way. I can still shoot with my right eye because I am right handed and I know a little about composition.
(the left eye is related to the right side of the brain!)With the leica M4 I don't like to shoot with my left eye because the wind lever gets in the way, and as long as I don't have a leicavit, it will stay that way. I can still shoot with my right eye because I am right handed and I know a little about composition.
MikeL
Go Fish
edodo said:
I find focusing with both eyes pretty straight forward. My troubles are with framing. I bought the HK 1.25x in the hope that it would make this easier, but I find the two images from each eye don't overlap. Same holds true on the M3. The image through the viewfinder gets shifted slightly like on a poorly collimated microscope. It's not a big deal but it is not as comfortable as using the Nikon 1:1 rangefinders. Quick framing with both eyes open is easier for me with the higher magnification.
edodo
Well-known
Thanks Mikel, that's what I wanted to know
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
I shoot both eyes open with my Canon P's (love the 1:1 finder). I usually have to close my left eye to do critical focusing, but if I am shooting on the street at 5.6 or so, I don't worry about it as much as I'm covered by dof if I'm a touch off.
swoop
Well-known
I can do it. It isn't all that hard. I have a .85x. And often times, I think it makes the subject feel more comfortable. As if you aren't just pointing a camera but actually looking at them.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I agree with this.
Try it and see.
Try it and see.
swoop said:
Oh Two
Established
One Eye Only
One Eye Only
For hand held shots 1/15 and under I turn the camera upside down and brace it hard against my forehead. I sqeeze the release with my thumb.
For me .72 is really too small for two eyed composition, .90 just makes it (barely).
If following action go with two eyes with whatever you brought.
One Eye Only
For hand held shots 1/15 and under I turn the camera upside down and brace it hard against my forehead. I sqeeze the release with my thumb.
For me .72 is really too small for two eyed composition, .90 just makes it (barely).
If following action go with two eyes with whatever you brought.
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
I use M3's, and shoot with both eyes open much of the time. I am right eye dominant, but I tend to shoot with either eye behind the finder, depending upon the circumstances. I tend to keep both eyes open, and when focusing carefully with my right eye, I can pretty easily ignore the info coming from my left eye. If I'm using my left (non-dominant) eye to focus, I have to close the right eye.
The M3's magnification is close enough to life size that it's pretty easy to keep both eyes open and get the "floating frameline" effect while viewing the world directly. Direct viewing, rather then looking at the world through the camera is what RF photography is all about, for me. Of course, with RF cameras built the way they are, this method only works for those of us who shoot with the right eye.
BTW- I have played with the Bessa R3a with it's 1:1 finder, and with a 50mm lens, the floating frameline effect is nearly perfect- it's easy to focus and compose. The M3 works really well, too, and is of course a better built and somewhat quieter camera, and since it's what I have, I use it.
The M3's magnification is close enough to life size that it's pretty easy to keep both eyes open and get the "floating frameline" effect while viewing the world directly. Direct viewing, rather then looking at the world through the camera is what RF photography is all about, for me. Of course, with RF cameras built the way they are, this method only works for those of us who shoot with the right eye.
BTW- I have played with the Bessa R3a with it's 1:1 finder, and with a 50mm lens, the floating frameline effect is nearly perfect- it's easy to focus and compose. The M3 works really well, too, and is of course a better built and somewhat quieter camera, and since it's what I have, I use it.
peter_n
Veteran
Personally I have no problem with the 0.72 either.edodo said:
Topdog1
Well-known
It is also easier to hold a camera steady with both eyes open when shooting at slow speeds. It reduces the general tension in your body which contributes to camera shake. I have no problem with doing it at .72x either, using dominant eye effect as described above. I, too, have been an amateur astronomer for many years. Don't know how much that training of the eyes contributed to the ability, though.
/Ira
/Ira
3opkuu
Zorkii
Not sure if this helps, but....
To find your dominant eye, make a small circle with your thumb and forefinger of Both hands and overlap them - both hands, it's important. Now hold your hands out at arms length, and look at some distant object through the little circle - both eyes open. Now draw your hands back to your face, while staying focused on the distant object - not your hands. The little circle you've been looking through will come to one eye. You have to use both hands, and it'll always be the same eye.
Now this doesn't mean that this is the eye that you use for creative stuff, it's just the dominant one - the one you'd use for precise, single function images - such as aiming a gun. In fact the above excercise is for finding if you shoot right or left handed in archery. Some right handed people aim / shoot left handed, and vice versa.
The 'creative eye' is supposedly the left one - regardless of whether you're right or left handed. The left eye is connected to the right side of your brain - it's the eye you use to gauge balance of form with - when you're composing an image for a photograph. The general scientific consensus says it's because the right side of your brain processes information in a non-linear way.
So, should you be using your linear (R) eye or your creative (L) eye to compose your images with?
Can't answer that - but I hope the above stimulates your interest, and that you'll experiment to see what works best for you creatively.
To find your dominant eye, make a small circle with your thumb and forefinger of Both hands and overlap them - both hands, it's important. Now hold your hands out at arms length, and look at some distant object through the little circle - both eyes open. Now draw your hands back to your face, while staying focused on the distant object - not your hands. The little circle you've been looking through will come to one eye. You have to use both hands, and it'll always be the same eye.
Now this doesn't mean that this is the eye that you use for creative stuff, it's just the dominant one - the one you'd use for precise, single function images - such as aiming a gun. In fact the above excercise is for finding if you shoot right or left handed in archery. Some right handed people aim / shoot left handed, and vice versa.
The 'creative eye' is supposedly the left one - regardless of whether you're right or left handed. The left eye is connected to the right side of your brain - it's the eye you use to gauge balance of form with - when you're composing an image for a photograph. The general scientific consensus says it's because the right side of your brain processes information in a non-linear way.
So, should you be using your linear (R) eye or your creative (L) eye to compose your images with?
Can't answer that - but I hope the above stimulates your interest, and that you'll experiment to see what works best for you creatively.