Hello All,
I had an experience recently at a camera store that left me a bit perplexed, and slightly irritated. I'll cut to the chase:
While I was handling an M3, the store owner helping me said "No. Don't do that..."
According to him, Leicas need to be handled "like jewelery", and a photog should NEVER let the wind lever rachet back when advancing to the next frame. The wind lever needs to be guided back home with the thumb that just performed the winding action. He demonstrated as he spoke...
During the course of these minutes of tutelage, I acted good-natured, enthusiastic, and eager to learn something new.
Next, I inquired about the speed difference between using the M3 & M2 knurled rewind knobs versus the newer (i.e. M4) rewind lever: "Do find it takes significantly longer to rewind?" I casually asked, (thinking that the bottom loading procedure would take long enough for a noob like me, to say nothing of twisting the knurled rewind knob.)
He paused, looked at me, and said: "You're the first person to ever ask me that question." Then he added: "A real Leica owner would NEVER ask that question."
I looked back, wide-eyed, disguising my distaste for his apparrent snobbery.
"Really?" I said.
"You see," he replied, "a Leica owner treats the camera like fine jewelery; they ENJOY the fine feel (sic.) of the camera..." He went on to say, with a bit of derision in his voice: "(If) you have a digital camera, you just point and shoot. With a LEICA, you COMPOSE the photo: Is it horizontal? Is it vertical?" he gestures with an M3 body in his hands.
Thank you very much, Mr. Eisenstadt.
The M3s in his shop were 'users', in fair to good condition. They were priced at $1,000 each, with the exception of one at $750. Apparently his guy hasn't discovered the Intarweb yet.
So I'm compelled to ask: Is treating the M wind levers with fanatical gentleness an accepted way of using a 'user' M? (i.e. the non "250 Borscht"/"Obi Wan Limited Edition"/"Aboriginal Lesbian Wedding Anniversary" or "catipillar hide covered" edition Leicas?) The one I was holding was a single wind model. Perhaps these grow fragile as they age?
Furthermore, is the difference between the M3 and M4-style rewind inconsequential?
I had an experience recently at a camera store that left me a bit perplexed, and slightly irritated. I'll cut to the chase:
While I was handling an M3, the store owner helping me said "No. Don't do that..."
According to him, Leicas need to be handled "like jewelery", and a photog should NEVER let the wind lever rachet back when advancing to the next frame. The wind lever needs to be guided back home with the thumb that just performed the winding action. He demonstrated as he spoke...
During the course of these minutes of tutelage, I acted good-natured, enthusiastic, and eager to learn something new.
Next, I inquired about the speed difference between using the M3 & M2 knurled rewind knobs versus the newer (i.e. M4) rewind lever: "Do find it takes significantly longer to rewind?" I casually asked, (thinking that the bottom loading procedure would take long enough for a noob like me, to say nothing of twisting the knurled rewind knob.)
He paused, looked at me, and said: "You're the first person to ever ask me that question." Then he added: "A real Leica owner would NEVER ask that question."
I looked back, wide-eyed, disguising my distaste for his apparrent snobbery.
"Really?" I said.
"You see," he replied, "a Leica owner treats the camera like fine jewelery; they ENJOY the fine feel (sic.) of the camera..." He went on to say, with a bit of derision in his voice: "(If) you have a digital camera, you just point and shoot. With a LEICA, you COMPOSE the photo: Is it horizontal? Is it vertical?" he gestures with an M3 body in his hands.
Thank you very much, Mr. Eisenstadt.
The M3s in his shop were 'users', in fair to good condition. They were priced at $1,000 each, with the exception of one at $750. Apparently his guy hasn't discovered the Intarweb yet.
So I'm compelled to ask: Is treating the M wind levers with fanatical gentleness an accepted way of using a 'user' M? (i.e. the non "250 Borscht"/"Obi Wan Limited Edition"/"Aboriginal Lesbian Wedding Anniversary" or "catipillar hide covered" edition Leicas?) The one I was holding was a single wind model. Perhaps these grow fragile as they age?
Furthermore, is the difference between the M3 and M4-style rewind inconsequential?
Chaser
Well-known
As far as real Leica users maybe he could see Gandy's write up on Winogrand's camera...
http://cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm
http://cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm
pmu
Well-known
LOL, what a snobbery. For f***s sake, Leicas are just cameras, not jewelry. (Unless we are talking about some real collectibles.)
I got once almost kicked out of a camera store when I looked at D200 Nikon digital body. I wanted to see how the viewfinder looks like. Well, it had body cap on, I took it off and the salesmen went to panic, grabbed the camera out of my hands and said that "don't do that! The sensor is getting all dusty if you remove the cap!" ....me: "well, how am I going to see how the viewfinder looks like if I can't remove the cap? Can you attach a lens to it?"... The salesmen had his death stare going and refused to co-operate anymore with me. No need to say that I bought my D200 elsewhere.
I got once almost kicked out of a camera store when I looked at D200 Nikon digital body. I wanted to see how the viewfinder looks like. Well, it had body cap on, I took it off and the salesmen went to panic, grabbed the camera out of my hands and said that "don't do that! The sensor is getting all dusty if you remove the cap!" ....me: "well, how am I going to see how the viewfinder looks like if I can't remove the cap? Can you attach a lens to it?"... The salesmen had his death stare going and refused to co-operate anymore with me. No need to say that I bought my D200 elsewhere.
M
Magus
Guest
Post deleted by posters request
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Hmm - I use the rewind knob on my M3 to, um, rewind film. Fast. So I can put more film in to take more photos. I like a nice-looking camera well enough - as long as it can take photos, and is designed to help that process rather than get in the way. Same as, first and foremost, I figure I ought to be able to tell the time by looking at a watch. Part of the appreciation of fine machinery, IMO, is that it works and works well.
If Leicas had to be treated like delicate flowers then photographers wouldn't have used them.
And if some drop-kick carried on like that, I'd tell him to keep delicately stroking his, um, lever while I head off to a camera shop.
...Mike
If Leicas had to be treated like delicate flowers then photographers wouldn't have used them.
And if some drop-kick carried on like that, I'd tell him to keep delicately stroking his, um, lever while I head off to a camera shop.
...Mike
M
Magus
Guest
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V
varjag
Guest
Amazing.. stories like that make me appreciate the store we have in this town.
The owner is very welcoming and was content with me playing with his Leicas almost every time I came to get some film. So couple of weeks ago I brought a friend of mine there, who bought an M6 with 50 cron (price was great too). Hoping to get an M4 there myself tomorrow
The owner is very welcoming and was content with me playing with his Leicas almost every time I came to get some film. So couple of weeks ago I brought a friend of mine there, who bought an M6 with 50 cron (price was great too). Hoping to get an M4 there myself tomorrow
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
And there's me seeing how fast I can have the wind lever sling back every time I wind on with my M2. It's a challenge.
I hate snobs like that. Ace Cameras in Bath were really friendly and helpful, not minding when I fired a few shots through with a minty IIIg, and played with a Contarex/Contaflex from the cabinets.
I have occasionally come across shop clerks with such snobbery, but then I usually talk them down and thrust my young physique and bad breath their way and they give me my space
...i don't really have bad breath.
I hate snobs like that. Ace Cameras in Bath were really friendly and helpful, not minding when I fired a few shots through with a minty IIIg, and played with a Contarex/Contaflex from the cabinets.
I have occasionally come across shop clerks with such snobbery, but then I usually talk them down and thrust my young physique and bad breath their way and they give me my space
...i don't really have bad breath.
nksyoon
Well-known
Isn't there a story (or urban legend) about US Leica salespeople throwing M3s against a wall to show how durable they were?
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
BTW...
...Mike
I gotta get me one of themcaffeineshutter said:
...Mike
VinceC
Veteran
The folks who've sold me Nikon RFs have always been a much nicer bunch.
It's been great reading all your reactions, comments, and anecdotes about camera retail.
Incidentally, this owner/salesman runs the aforementioned shop in a very moneyed suburb of the Boston metro area. For kicks, I Googled his name and shop. The results I got were almost exclusively M8 owners gushing over his "great" demeanor and "lightnin' fast" (which I read as "boot licking") service. I can't help but think this guy knows his clientele well enough to be able to cherry pick the well-heeled dilettante photogs when they come through the door.
Incidentally, this owner/salesman runs the aforementioned shop in a very moneyed suburb of the Boston metro area. For kicks, I Googled his name and shop. The results I got were almost exclusively M8 owners gushing over his "great" demeanor and "lightnin' fast" (which I read as "boot licking") service. I can't help but think this guy knows his clientele well enough to be able to cherry pick the well-heeled dilettante photogs when they come through the door.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Well, I tolerate the M3's wind knob, but a rewind crank (a la the M4 and almost any other camera of the 60s and 70s) is much more convenient.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Hmm -- a town that begins iwth an "N"?
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
And the Hexar RF of the late 90s is pure luxuryKoNickon said:
...Mike
Jeroen
Well-known
"One week later I go back to the obnoxious shop, brand-new MP in hand. I walk in, approach the idiot and, with the greatest enthusiasm you can imagine and my friendliest smile exclaim: 'I got it, I finally got it! Now I'd like to buy that copy of Dennis Laney's / Erwin Puts' Leica Pocket Book, please' (approx. 20 euros)."
Touché
Touché
wyk_penguin
Well-known
A friend of mine who has an M3 uses the "twirl-a-whirl" rewind method, i.e. pulls up the crank, holds it in his left hand and twirls the camera around. He's been at it for quite a while and the camera's still going strong. (I wonder if he ever lost his grip.)
Robert Price
I missed what?
AHHH. Leica snobbery. We have two camera shops that "actually" have leica's to sell. One is a dealer, the other has only used Leica's. The Dealer shop is great. I got there to get all of my Leica goodies. The other used camera dealer likes to diplay his Leica's like fine jewelery. It erks me every time I go there, but I can always get him down on price. I just play his game and get him every time.
He's an Idiot to be sure, always thinking he has the market cornered on cameras of antiquity but he is just a pawn shop when it comes to buying cameras, and selling them. I just got a M3 from him with 50 and 90 mm lenses. He wanted $1500.00 for it all. I just wanted the body, long story short, I ended up with it all for $750.00.
Lesson to be learned, some times it can be to your advantage to play along with the snobbery, it could get you a better deal.
He's an Idiot to be sure, always thinking he has the market cornered on cameras of antiquity but he is just a pawn shop when it comes to buying cameras, and selling them. I just got a M3 from him with 50 and 90 mm lenses. He wanted $1500.00 for it all. I just wanted the body, long story short, I ended up with it all for $750.00.
Lesson to be learned, some times it can be to your advantage to play along with the snobbery, it could get you a better deal.
M
Magus
Guest
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peter_n
Veteran
If the town begins with "N" that dealership recently lost a very long-serving manager who ran the camera sales desk. He is a great bloke and also a Leica user and I'm sure he took most of his clientele with him.
The owner is out to lunch.
The owner is out to lunch.