Fraser
Well-known
The M8 is not a dud plenty of people still using them and getting great results.
Wburgess
Established
Really ask yourself, why do you want a Leica?
I was in the very same situation about a year ago, and in the end struggled to justify the purchase.
It may be that different things are important to you, in which case, go for it... You will always find someone to pay close to what you did if you wish to sell.
As for it lasting a looong time... I would be looking at a newer more reliable camera.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
There have been a couple of mentions of the M8 shutter vs. the M8.2 shutter and reliability issues. Leica has reported that the new shutter is no more or less reliable than the old shutter, it's just supposed to be a little quieter with a top speed of 1/4000 on the M8.2 shutter vs. 1/8000 on the M8. According to information on the web, the shutters are both custom-spec'd Copal metal vertical focal plane shutters. Similar shutters have been used in many, many cameras over the years.
I've had the M8 shutter issue and the M8 coffee stain issue. They are not myths. Only buy a M8 if you are willing to lose all of your money at this point. If you are ok with it possibly becoming a paperweight after spending $1600, then it is still a useful camera.
Mcary
Well-known
Bought mine for about $1650 about a year ago and works great for what I use it for, which is mostly shooting during the day at ISO 160 and once in a while 320 or 640. As far as low light shooting goes for what I shoot using a tripod isn't an issue in fact I'm thinking of getting an 10 stop ND filter to stack with the 6 stop ND filter I already have so that I can get longer exposures.
UV filter: All the lens I have as well as the ones I have my eyes on all have small 39mm-46mm filter sizes so don't really find this as an issue for me.
UV filter: All the lens I have as well as the ones I have my eyes on all have small 39mm-46mm filter sizes so don't really find this as an issue for me.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
If and when looking for the rangefinder experience, also have a look at a mint second-hand Epson r-d1s or it's successor, the r-d1x. Both are widely available in Japan.
doolittle
Well-known
Never thought I would end up defending the M8, but here goes
It's certainly not a dud. It's definitely quirky though!
Crop factor - yes, 1.33. Does that matter? Maybe to the buyer. Is full frame worth a paying twice the price - once again maybe. Is it all in the mind - full frame is a crop factor compared to medium format too.
Need for UV filter - the camera does benefit from an IR filter for colour photography, no denying that. However for those interested in IR photography, the M8 is one of the best camera systems out there. Especially from a usage point of view, way easier than an IR converted dSLR. Is it a big deal? Once again depends on the buyer. If buying second hand usually can get seller to include them as part of the deal.
A sensor that's as old as Canon 20D - I'm not so sure about dates. I think the 30D would be more of its era. They are totally different sensors either way. Personally I think the files from the M8 at low iso are phenomenal. Way better than the Nikon D80 files I was shooting back in the day. Best thing for potential buyers is to check out flickr and other sites for M8 shots and make up their own mind.
Program lenses or code them - there is no menu option to program in lenses on the M8 (not sure about the 8.2, but think you need M9 onwards), so coding the lens mount is the only option. Personally I have never had any problems with my uncoded lenses, including my 21mm. Not sure if the crop factor makes it less of a problem. Maybe I don't look closely enough at the files, haven't noticed any problem on prints.
The Leica M8, it's not for everybody. Doesn't stop it being a great camera to produce great pictures for many photographers!
Lss
Well-known
Failures are a reality like with any complex product. But there is not really such a thing as an M8 shutter issue.
The coffee stain issue is a real issue for one (?) batch of the LCD screens, although it is only cosmetic. It also is the reason for Leica running out of spare parts.
My shutter got a tear in it... and there are photos of others people's M8s with the same issue on the internet. It is a real issue, but just not as prevalejnt as the coffee stain issue. I'm not sure why people get offended over facts.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
I don't think that anyone is suggesting they're myths. Failures certainly happen, and have happened in the M8. The M9 hasn't been immune to failures either. My comment was merely that Leica has said that the newer M8.2 shutter isn't any more reliable than the original M8 shutter, it's just supposed to be more quiet. Which may itself be a myth as I can't hear much difference between my M8 and my M9P myself.
We hear about the failures here on RFF and LUF because folks come here looking for help. We don't know what the failure rate is in the Canikony world because folks either just send them for repair or pitch them because they understand that they're consumables. There's no comparison data available to allow us to compare MTBF rates among manufacturers and models. Leicas are consumables too... ALL of them. The film bodies are repairable because the mechanical parts are more easily obtained or even machined, but they still fail.
Lss
Well-known
This is the first time I even hear about this tear issue (let's call it that for now) and I have been an M8 user for some years. I will look this up, when I have the time.
It is clear that there have been several shutter failures of various sorts. I'm sure there have been on any camera with a mechanical shutter. It's the nature of the beast.
No one's getting offended. Just clearing out said facts.
Ok, Lss, you win.
Lss
Well-known
A new shutter?
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Indeed, but the OP said : I'd like for it to last a looong time. IMHO that will not be the case with a seven year old Leica M8. That of course depends on your definition of a long time and your definition of failure. As I said I have a failure now of LEDs and a new problem of "SD card full". I can still take pictures, is that a failure?
Even Leica will not know the failure rate as owners just don't send thenm in for repair, writing then off as they assume, probably correctly, that the cost of the repair will out of proportion. Many will love them enough, and make no mistake I rate the images very highly particularly the monochrome, to have them repaired. My advice to the "poor" by his definition OP stands: They are now overpriced IMHO and can be expected to fail unexpectedly. You would need a solid 12 month guarantee and be prepared to write it off when out of that guarantee, most repairs would be out of all manner and reason. I am happy to remove "unexpectedly" if that helps
but replace it with " you can expect it to fail at some point in the future which may be sooner or later" :angel:
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
Says you.
I've owned the camera in question.
It was a fifty camera when it came out nearly a 8 years ago.
Much like the Canon 30d.
I'm sure that people are getting great results with 30d's today too.
That having been said, when I compare the M8 (price wise) to another camera in the same price range, it is a dud. My 6D and my 3 year old Fuji X100 both blows it out the water across the board.
So it's pretty safe to say that today, the M8 is a dud so my advice is don't be a pushover on this.
The up and up on this is to save up for something newer, or find good alternative (for less) in my book.
I've owned the camera in question.
It was a fifty camera when it came out nearly a 8 years ago.
Much like the Canon 30d.
I'm sure that people are getting great results with 30d's today too.
That having been said, when I compare the M8 (price wise) to another camera in the same price range, it is a dud. My 6D and my 3 year old Fuji X100 both blows it out the water across the board.
So it's pretty safe to say that today, the M8 is a dud so my advice is don't be a pushover on this.
The up and up on this is to save up for something newer, or find good alternative (for less) in my book.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
My advice to the "poor" by his definition OP stands: They are now overpriced IMHO and can be expected to fail unexpectedly. You would need a solid 12 month guarantee and be prepared to write it off when out of that guarantee, most repairs would be out of all manner and reason. I am happy to remove "unexpectedly" if that helps
Chris, all cameras fail eventually, and they only fail when you go to use them... they never fail sitting in the closet unused. "Long time" depends on how the camera is used and how much use and abuse it's subjected to. Your advice is sound, but it applies to buying any used camera. Absent a repeatable defect in any particular component, anecdotal evidence of failures doesn't have any direct connection to whether or not MY camera will fail.
I don't know what a "fifty" camera is.
I am probably beginning to sound like a broken record, but you can compare DSLRs of all brands and models all day long, but there is nothing that compares to the Leica M series. There ARE no other coupled coincident rangefinder/bright line viewfinder digital cameras still in production. THAT is the feature that makes Leica worth buying. If you don't care what mechanism you use for framing, then there are literally dozens of models out there that will do the job for you. If like me however, the rangefinder is your thing, then there is nothing else out there to compare the Leica digital cameras to.
I think that folks trying to compare rangefinder cameras to DSLRs causes a lot of confusion, frustration, and misunderstanding.
Meakin
Established
....and this is the exact reason I'm waiting for an m8 to arrive with the postman any day now.
I spend my work week, every week, lugging around a dslr for a living - every time I lift it too my eye i feel like I'm looking into a tunnel..only vaguely seeing whats happening at the other end (never mind whats happening just outside the frame). So as a personal/always on me camera - for me it's the m8. M9 and upwards I just can't/will not afford...and there aint much else in the price range thats does the above and lets you change lenses.
/Meakin
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
Applesauce.
You can easily compare M8 to a modern DSLR and to X100 (not a DSLR).
It's easy, try use all of the above and report back.
You'll get plus's and minus's for each.
But you'll end up with far more plus's for the X100 and modern DSLR then you will for an 8 year M8.
Plus, most of the above will cost less then M8 will.
I would also use an M2, M3, M4, M5, M6, M7 and MP over an M8.
Actually I already do.
All these film Leica's film camera's are far more usable then an M8.
The M8 is today a dud, and in the future, it will always be a dud.
It is akin to a bronx cheer.
You can easily compare M8 to a modern DSLR and to X100 (not a DSLR).
It's easy, try use all of the above and report back.
You'll get plus's and minus's for each.
But you'll end up with far more plus's for the X100 and modern DSLR then you will for an 8 year M8.
Plus, most of the above will cost less then M8 will.
I would also use an M2, M3, M4, M5, M6, M7 and MP over an M8.
Actually I already do.
All these film Leica's film camera's are far more usable then an M8.
The M8 is today a dud, and in the future, it will always be a dud.
It is akin to a bronx cheer.
raid
Dad Photographer
Photography is not about the latest model camera.
The Leica lenses match the M8 perfectly, and I love having the M8 for short tele photos. If you like to use the classical 50mm focal length, then using a 35mm lens with the M8 gives you this look. The RF experience is of course the main reason for using Leica anyways.
The Leica lenses match the M8 perfectly, and I love having the M8 for short tele photos. If you like to use the classical 50mm focal length, then using a 35mm lens with the M8 gives you this look. The RF experience is of course the main reason for using Leica anyways.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
As an avid fan of the RF/VF, I truly appreciate the uniqueness of it, and what it means to the production of images. Nevertheless, people can and will compare, precisely because when you look at the final image, nobody knows, and nobody cares.