johnnyrod
More cameras than shots
Imissed out on acquiring a rather beaten-up 530 Super Ikonta A (very early model) which, if the Ebayer is to be believed, was tatty but working. I can't find out a whole lot about these little cameras, shoudl I persevere and keep looking for one? Are its larger siblings with their longer lenses difficult to take pictures of things that aren't over 20 feet away? Am I on a hiding to nothing looking a cameras of this vintage, unless it's quite serious money?
Robert Lai
Well-known
Be selective with these cameras. Condition is key. Bad bellows will be extremely costly to repair (read new bellows, made in the UK by special order - ask me how I know).
Shutters may be in bad shape.
I'd rather hold out for coated lenses (Red T*) and shutters with flash synch for versatility (Compur Rapid or Synchro Compur).
Albada finders tend to yellow with age and their framelines may desilver.
Having said that, I did have some very nice results with one with an uncoated lens that someone was kind enough to lend me for 1 month. Another one with uncoated lens that I bought was horrible, so it is a toss up.
On the plus side, these are very tiny, pocketable cameras.
On the down side, the red window winding is a bit tedious, and I get anxious about having to finish 16 frames. I know that sounds funny when you have 36 frames with 35mm film, but that's how it feels.
For about the same money, I'd rather have a nice Super Ikonta B, BX, III, IV, or an Agfa Super Isolette (OK, some of these may be more money). These all shoot 6x6, and have automated frame spacing.
In answer to your other questions, a properly aligned and serviced Super Ikonta will accurately focus to its minimum focus distance wide open with the rangefinder. It is a Zeiss product, after all.
Shutters may be in bad shape.
I'd rather hold out for coated lenses (Red T*) and shutters with flash synch for versatility (Compur Rapid or Synchro Compur).
Albada finders tend to yellow with age and their framelines may desilver.
Having said that, I did have some very nice results with one with an uncoated lens that someone was kind enough to lend me for 1 month. Another one with uncoated lens that I bought was horrible, so it is a toss up.
On the plus side, these are very tiny, pocketable cameras.
On the down side, the red window winding is a bit tedious, and I get anxious about having to finish 16 frames. I know that sounds funny when you have 36 frames with 35mm film, but that's how it feels.
For about the same money, I'd rather have a nice Super Ikonta B, BX, III, IV, or an Agfa Super Isolette (OK, some of these may be more money). These all shoot 6x6, and have automated frame spacing.
In answer to your other questions, a properly aligned and serviced Super Ikonta will accurately focus to its minimum focus distance wide open with the rangefinder. It is a Zeiss product, after all.
gdmcclintock
Well-known
I have one in great shape that I plan to sell assuming the roll I just shot with it comes out ok. PM me if you are interested.
pschauss
Well-known
I second the positive comments above. A Super Ikonta A is my favorite medium format travel camera. You get all of the benefits of a large negative in a camera about the same size as a Barnack Leica. As with all older cameras, try to find one which has been serviced. I bought one from Ebay seller Cupog and one from Beedhams. Both worked perfectly right out of the box.
With the uncoated lens, a hood is a good idea.
With the uncoated lens, a hood is a good idea.
robbeiflex
Well-known
I have a Zeiss Ikon 521, scale focus, and prefer it. If you are on a budget and can do without the rangefinder, or have an external one, then you should consider one. 
Cheers,
Rob
PS: Sacrilege on a rangefinder forum, I know, but I would like to point out that there is a Scale Focus forum on here and it has some fantastic photos!
Cheers,
Rob
PS: Sacrilege on a rangefinder forum, I know, but I would like to point out that there is a Scale Focus forum on here and it has some fantastic photos!
johnnyrod
More cameras than shots
Thanks for the replies - why do you prefer scale focus Rob?
btgc
Veteran
Rangefinder versions go for much more and they aren't coupled so get used to it. Internal RF's (like on Mess 524) are OK just add some bulk to top cover but external ones also require some additional care.
DOF usually serves well, especially if one isn't using wide apertures at close distances. For scenery, landscapes RF isn't of any help. So it depends for what and how one uses camera.
DOF usually serves well, especially if one isn't using wide apertures at close distances. For scenery, landscapes RF isn't of any help. So it depends for what and how one uses camera.
johnnyrod
More cameras than shots
Hmm I guess. I thought the Super Ikontas had coupled rangefinders? Also my question above about shooting things close up was more about lenses - the larger-frame ones e.g. 6x9 Ikontas have a 105mm lens so I guess you have to be a bit further back from your subject?
btgc
Veteran
mea culpa...Supers do have coupled RF. To me this still is question of use - I couldn't spend fortune for feature I wouldn't be using enough. For this type of shots I probably wouldn't use folders, anyway. But it can be handy at times.
105mm on 6x9 is like 45mm on 35mm film.
105mm on 6x9 is like 45mm on 35mm film.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Super ikontas have coupled rf.
Perhaps the folks above were referring to the separate view- and rangefinder windows.mI think no super ikonta A was made w combined rf/vf. It slows you down a bit in shooting.
All super ikontas focus to around a meter and a bit i think. I would not worry about that.
Presently i have a SI III which is a combined vf/rf but its 6x6. And my sample has the lesser triplet lens. Nevertheless, i did make some interesting shots with it. Wide open the corners are unsharp but it has cool effect of spatial separation of the in-focus subject in the right circumstances.
You should give it a try. Buy the one from gdmcc...whatever, here above.
Perhaps the folks above were referring to the separate view- and rangefinder windows.mI think no super ikonta A was made w combined rf/vf. It slows you down a bit in shooting.
All super ikontas focus to around a meter and a bit i think. I would not worry about that.
Presently i have a SI III which is a combined vf/rf but its 6x6. And my sample has the lesser triplet lens. Nevertheless, i did make some interesting shots with it. Wide open the corners are unsharp but it has cool effect of spatial separation of the in-focus subject in the right circumstances.
You should give it a try. Buy the one from gdmcc...whatever
, here above.
ray*j*gun
Veteran
I have found that even those folders that are coupled are not reliable as to focus. I have 2 scale folders that are excellent and small compact and stone reliable. I carry 2 stick range finders when the DOF is too shallow.
robbeiflex
Well-known
Size and weight is the short answer. I haven't used the folder for shots where close focus is critical, it's more for scenic landscapes for me. The Rolleiflex with it's giant screen and little magnifying glass above it is my tool of choice when I want shallow dof on medium format. The folder goes in my pocket for hikes and bike rides, and I have found the smaller and lighter scale focus version just suits me better at these times.
Cheers,
Rob
johnnyrod
More cameras than shots
Ah right! I've only used 35mm so I'd presumed that a 105mm lens would give you a similar telephoto result on 120 as on 35mm. So the answer is, it enlarges the image just as much, but it then has a bigger film to plant that onto, so you're back to a "normal" field of view?
Stick rangefinder? Like a bit of card? To be honest I don't have a good feel for exposure yet so I'd probably end up using another (empty) camera to gauge that, so could use its distance scale as well.
I've been making some close-medium shots with a fairly shallow DoF, but to be honest I'm not sure it really added to the overall picture, not to mention being somewhat unforgiving of ham-fisted focusing.
DwF
Well-known
Yes, normal field of view and for the Ikonta A, or B for that matter, 75mm is normal.
I would recommend getting the rangefinder model "Super" or 531A. I have both (love the simplicity of the 521) but for closer in and shallow Dof, the rangefinder is a nice addition. And a light meter is way better than carrying a second camera just for staging purposes.
The "stick" rangefinders are also a good option, or consider a Perkeo with a rangefinder that mounts to the shoe on top!
Scrambler
Well-known
You can get separate rangefinders, that people are referring to as "stick" rangefinders. They give you the distance and you dial that up yourself on the lens: slow but it works. An Ikonta with an uncoupled RF built in is a Mess-Ikonta. The trouble in use is the absence of a shoe to mount a separate RF into, so extra thing to carry and extra fiddle. Particularly for tripod shots I've certainly used the second camera as RF.
DwF
Well-known
I know about the stick rangefinders, I have had one and used them, also a good option. I believe the Mess-Ikonta referred to a particular group of cameras in the 50s that were 6x6 and 6x9 after production of the 521 ceased that were as you mention uncoupled. I'm sure someone here will be able to provide more on that. And yes, if you carry a tripod, having a second camera in tow, not to mention a phone with flashlight to work in the dark would also be good
ZeissFan
Veteran
There are enough Super Ikonta A models on the market that you shouldn't have to buy one that's in poor condition.
I have owned several of these. They are nice little shooters, and the coupled rangefinder does help.
Just as important as the condition is whether the lens bed is parallel to the film plane. If a folding camera is dropped when it's open, it can throw it out of alignment. And if the camera was dropped on a carpeted floor, for example, you might not be able to see evidence of it being dropped.
In any case, I try not to buy cameras that are beat to hell and back. Some people take pride in tossing their cameras about, and that's fine. I just don't want to be the next owner of that camera.
I have owned several of these. They are nice little shooters, and the coupled rangefinder does help.
Just as important as the condition is whether the lens bed is parallel to the film plane. If a folding camera is dropped when it's open, it can throw it out of alignment. And if the camera was dropped on a carpeted floor, for example, you might not be able to see evidence of it being dropped.
In any case, I try not to buy cameras that are beat to hell and back. Some people take pride in tossing their cameras about, and that's fine. I just don't want to be the next owner of that camera.
johnnyrod
More cameras than shots
How would you easily assess the alignment? Also Mike I saw on your site you were raving about the image quality of a 6x9 ikonta - this has made me wonder that, if I get myself a 120 camera, should I go the whole hog and get a large one instead? Though already a half-frame 120 negative is around 4x the area of a 35mm negative.
pschauss
Well-known
It depends on how you intend to use the camera. When I travel, I like to be able to carry my camera in my pocket. A Super Ikonta A is great for that. In front of me in my office I have three pictures that I took with medium format film, two with the Super Ikonta A enlarged to 11x14" and one that I took with my Rolleiflex Automat enlarged to 11x11". From a subjective point of view I don't see much difference in sharpness or detail.
As far as 6x9 format is concerned, I have had problems from time to time with film flatness. With a negative that large in folder, you need to advance the film after you open the camera in order to be sure that the film does not get sucked away from the back plate by the vacuum.