steveyork
Well-known
I keep reading that the shutter on these old rangefinders are temperamental or fragile, but it always seems to come from Leica guys in explanation of why they don't have one, why you need to stay away from the camera ... blah, blah, why Leicas are the best, ect., so I don't know whether it's internet gossip or whether there's some truth behind the words. And yes, I realize the viewfinder in an M is generally considered better.
pb908
Well-known
shutter curtain in contax IIa, move up down, while in leica from left right position
you can consider the shutter in contax more like a metal rolling door in your garage, the curtain itself are small pieces of metal bar connected together with linkage, if it is in good condition i can say it will last forever, while a leica curtain may last for decades.
seeing craftmanship of iia compare to a leica m2, i can say contax have more "artistic" uality in its design, the way the shutter been cocked, the way the film counter rotated at the same time you wind the shutter, really amazing experience. meanwhile, a leica have the better finder and body cast and smoothest operation.
talking about shutter noise, somehow my past experience showed to me that a contax iia can be more quiet compared to a leica, well, in my case i cla-ed them all back to their best condition firstly, something that i mayself surprised how can a metal curtain assembly can be that quiet.
playing a contax iia can be once in a lifetime great experience
you can consider the shutter in contax more like a metal rolling door in your garage, the curtain itself are small pieces of metal bar connected together with linkage, if it is in good condition i can say it will last forever, while a leica curtain may last for decades.
seeing craftmanship of iia compare to a leica m2, i can say contax have more "artistic" uality in its design, the way the shutter been cocked, the way the film counter rotated at the same time you wind the shutter, really amazing experience. meanwhile, a leica have the better finder and body cast and smoothest operation.
talking about shutter noise, somehow my past experience showed to me that a contax iia can be more quiet compared to a leica, well, in my case i cla-ed them all back to their best condition firstly, something that i mayself surprised how can a metal curtain assembly can be that quiet.
playing a contax iia can be once in a lifetime great experience
colyn
ישו משיח
Any claims that these shutters are fragile is hogwash.. They are just as good as Leica shutters and I am a Leica user..
Any camera will at some time in their life will need service and if it is done right these cameras will perform flawlessly for years..
I have a Contax that I bought used in 1969 and without service all these years is still working fine..
Any camera will at some time in their life will need service and if it is done right these cameras will perform flawlessly for years..
I have a Contax that I bought used in 1969 and without service all these years is still working fine..
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
The Contax shutter is far more complicated than the Leica shutter, but if set up right it's quite durable (and you won't burn a hole in it...). The Achilles heel of these shutters is the woven tapes used to hold the shutters together. No way to know what condition they are in without taking the camera apart. But if the tapes are in good shape, the shutter will run for a long time.
The thing is, it seems there are far fewer competent Contax repairers than Leica ones.
The thing is, it seems there are far fewer competent Contax repairers than Leica ones.
pb908
Well-known
KoNickon, i believe you mention shutter tape for contax II, not iia
in contax ii, 2nd curtain is held with tape, which will be the weak point when slow shutter speed selected. but in contax iia, it no longer use tape, instead it use gears mechanism for both curtains.
in contax ii, 2nd curtain is held with tape, which will be the weak point when slow shutter speed selected. but in contax iia, it no longer use tape, instead it use gears mechanism for both curtains.
Highway 61
Revisited
False. The Contax IIa shutter curtains linkage-synchronization relies on tapes and cords. The tapes receive less wear than the ones of the Contax II but they can fray and the cords length can change over time, which may cause problems with the shutter behavior.
On the Contax II shutter, the tapes receive much wear on every shot, thus they will regularly break if the camera sees much use. But besides this particular problem the Contax II shutter is more reliable than the Contax IIa shutter, which suffers from a questionable design (too much friction in the beveled geartrain, and high speeds prone to never work properly despite some regular servicing).
Dez
Bodger Extraordinaire
Following is my highly-opinionated take on the Contax vs Leica shutter designs.....
The Contax shutters, both pre- and post-war, are masterpieces of mechanical design, of great complexity, and made to challenging tolerances: truly splendid machines when serviced properly. And you won't burn a hole through them.
But the Leica shutter is a better design for the job the camera needs to do in the real world. It is cruder, more subject to the sync problems inherent in a shutter which doesn't expose the whole frame at the same time, and yes, you CAN burn a hole through it. But it is better because it is far simpler. There are far fewer moving parts, fewer bits that are subject to dirt and changing viscosity of lubricants.
Prewar Contaxes burn out shutter tapes, and are subject to uneven exposures dependent on the moving friction of the tapes. For the shutter to work properly, the tapes need to high levels of static friction and low levels of dynamic friction. Postwar Contaxes don't have the same tape reliability problem, but seem to have just as many whirly bits that need to do their job to operate the shutter as before, and are notoriously subject to capping at high shutter speeds when the complex gear train gets a bit sluggish.
So if you are looking for the ultimate precision when just serviced, go for the Contax design. If you need something that will continue to give approximately correct exposures for a very long time, under a wide range of conditions, the Leica design is the way to go. Or even better, take the Leica design and replace the cloth curtains with metal. How often do you hear of a Nikon F shutter messing up?
Cheers,
Dez
The Contax shutters, both pre- and post-war, are masterpieces of mechanical design, of great complexity, and made to challenging tolerances: truly splendid machines when serviced properly. And you won't burn a hole through them.
But the Leica shutter is a better design for the job the camera needs to do in the real world. It is cruder, more subject to the sync problems inherent in a shutter which doesn't expose the whole frame at the same time, and yes, you CAN burn a hole through it. But it is better because it is far simpler. There are far fewer moving parts, fewer bits that are subject to dirt and changing viscosity of lubricants.
Prewar Contaxes burn out shutter tapes, and are subject to uneven exposures dependent on the moving friction of the tapes. For the shutter to work properly, the tapes need to high levels of static friction and low levels of dynamic friction. Postwar Contaxes don't have the same tape reliability problem, but seem to have just as many whirly bits that need to do their job to operate the shutter as before, and are notoriously subject to capping at high shutter speeds when the complex gear train gets a bit sluggish.
So if you are looking for the ultimate precision when just serviced, go for the Contax design. If you need something that will continue to give approximately correct exposures for a very long time, under a wide range of conditions, the Leica design is the way to go. Or even better, take the Leica design and replace the cloth curtains with metal. How often do you hear of a Nikon F shutter messing up?
Cheers,
Dez
outfitter
Well-known
During WWII combat photgraphers like Capra used the Contax II because they were supposed to be more durable. That camera was designed to have the tapes replaced every 20 years - it was a maintenance item in the days when there were factory trained technicians everywhere. Miracle of miracle any FSU camera guy (in Russia, Ukraine or in NY fgor that matter) can replace the tapes. The Contax IIA was an improved shutter and should last longer but the irony is that it may be more difficult to find a reasonably priced reapir person. G ood news its very easy to open the top CLA the speed gears.
rodinal
film user
That's Capa, Robert Capa.
Dez
Bodger Extraordinaire
The material used for the alter Kiev shutter tapes is quite different from that used in the prewar Contax. It is considerably thicker and a coarse weave that has a lot more friction. It is possible to use this material- I have overhauled a few cameras with it, but it is tricky, and requires some modification to the leading curtain. Many FSU technicians will swap out the entire shutter mechanism with that from a Kiev. If that is a problem, you might want to reconsider sending your camera there. The postwar cameras use quite a different mechanism which does not depend on this now-unfindable material.
Cheers,
Dez
Cheers,
Dez