Shutter speed dial directions

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gotium

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Amongst those of you who have multiple rangefinder bodies, do any of you consistently use manual exposure on two bodies where the shutter speed dials are oriented in opposite directions? For example, an M7 and a Zeiss Ikon, or an M8 and an MP?

Does it drive you nuts, or do you get used to it?
 
I have an M4 and an M7. Have had the M4 for decades. Until I read on this forum that they rotated in different directions I didn't even know it.

I set a shutter speed and then pick an aperture to match. Same way using either the M4-r meter on the M4 or the diodes in the M7. If I want to bracket I do it with the aperture - by feel, once left, twice right. If I want to change shutter speeds I do it by looking. I'd be asking for trouble if I rotated the shutter speed to bracket (might end up with too slow of a SS).
 
I have M2's and various M4P's and M6 which rotate the "right" way (i.e the old way). I also have several M6 TTL's which of course rotate the "wrong" way. I usually take cameras with the same rotation if I carry multiple bodies.
It is not a big deal - but if you are shooting fast and furious - it easy to mix them up! I had the M7 for a while, no problem with the shutter speed dial - lots of problem with the +/- compensation. To damned discreet reminder in the VF - far too easy to forget that you were doing a + exposure - and subsequent frames were all 1 stop over!!!!
 
Yes I have both M2/M6/MP with the small dial; and M6TTL with the big dial that turns the wrong way. Here's something I've tried out, with some success.

To increase the exposure with M2, M6classic, or MP, we turn the dial counterclockwise. I try to visualize the rear surface of the dial going to the right: that is, going in the same direction the underexposure LED is pointing in the M6 classic or MP.

Now, with the M6TTL, when I want to increase exposure, I visualize the frontedge of the dial moving to the right. That's easy because the larger dial on these cameras comes much closer to the front of the camera. This automatically turns the dial clockwise.

So: classic cameras, rear edge of dial goes in the direction the arrow is pointing. M6 TTL, front edge goes in the arrow direction.

What do you think?
 
Tom A said:
I had the M7 for a while, no problem with the shutter speed dial - lots of problem with the +/- compensation. To damned discreet reminder in the VF - far too easy to forget that you were doing a + exposure - and subsequent frames were all 1 stop over!!!!
Click to expand...
I have never used the exposure compensation dial except when I want to change the iso of a film by a 1/2 stop (for the entire roll).
 
Tom A said:
I have M2's and various M4P's and M6 which rotate the "right" way (i.e the old way). I also have several M6 TTL's which of course rotate the "wrong" way. I usually take cameras with the same rotation if I carry multiple bodies.
It is not a big deal - but if you are shooting fast and furious - it easy to mix them up! I had the M7 for a while, no problem with the shutter speed dial - lots of problem with the +/- compensation. To damned discreet reminder in the VF - far too easy to forget that you were doing a + exposure - and subsequent frames were all 1 stop over!!!!
Click to expand...

Tom - do you mean problems with the +/- compensation with that big dial thingy on the back? Or using the half-press of the shutter to fix the shutter speed and then adjusting the aperture? While I've not tried either, the latter seems like a better idea to me.
 
Rob-F said:
Yes I have both M2/M6/MP with the small dial; and M6TTL with the big dial that turns the wrong way. Here's something I've tried out, with some success.

To increase the exposure with M2, M6classic, or MP, we turn the dial counterclockwise. I try to visualize the rear surface of the dial going to the right: that is, going in the same direction the underexposure LED is pointing in the M6 classic or MP.

Now, with the M6TTL, when I want to increase exposure, I visualize the frontedge of the dial moving to the right. That's easy because the larger dial on these cameras comes much closer to the front of the camera. This automatically turns the dial clockwise.

So: classic cameras, rear edge of dial goes in the direction the arrow is pointing. M6 TTL, front edge goes in the arrow direction.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

This sounds like it actually might work. You'd have to get into the frame of mind of which camera you are using.

I have this problem with my bicycles. When I suddenly need to downshift to go up a steep hill on my mountain bike, I shift down with my right thumb. The same thumb on my road bike shifts me the OTHER way. And it drives me nuts.
 
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ItsreallyDarren and Beemermark - the problem I would have is that I'm often using a lens wide open - no room to open any further and, in the case of at least one of them, if I close the aperture a bit I get a focus shift. So I'm often finding that I calibrate my exposures by changing shutter speed.
 
When I first tried the M6ttl it drove me crazy, but you get used to it. Yesterday I was using my 'dream outfit' (MP and M9) and realized that I no longer think about it. Stranger still, I used A a lot with the M8 and M8.2 but went back to manual on the M9. Why? Dunno.

Then again, it's weird, but increasingly, I find that I set speed and aperture without really looking; raise the camera to my eye; and find that the automatic lens-cap warning device agrees precisely with my exposure. When it doesn't (unusually light or dark subject), as often as not, I'm right.

Cheers,

R.
 
For me it is hardwired in my system, and for that reason getting an M8 has somehow ruled out using older Ms in the future... A pity, but I will not let that make me loose concentration - or shots.

I thought it would be hard to convert to the M8 for this reason, but because I have used cameras with that direction earlier it went quite fast. Recently I took along a Bessa L with 12mm to Budapest, and that actually went fine due to slow shooting and it having a different feel than the M8.

I would be very interested in having an M8 converted! It should be possible, the switch-plate beneath the wheel is simple to replace - but I will not venture doing it myself...

For me these things are central to the concept of a Leica - doing all the work manually and often even before rasing the camera for a shot.
 
I don't get this at all for un metered m's. Why does it matter unless camera has a meter? my m6 turns 'wrong way' but in my mind when I use it I know this and instinctively turn the dial to light up the led's. When I had both ttl and classics I really just didn't notice as In my mind i knew I was using the ttl because of the bigger dial and the centre spot led. I really must be missing something here. I'm sure there are many here who can but I can't adjust to differing light, guessing exposure and not taking my eye away from the finder for a sec to look what speed i've set when using my m2. And I can't think of many situations that it is necessary to keep your eye glued to the finder either. If composition and speed shooting is so important to people then one stop either side with b&w or colour print isn't going to matter that much anyway.
 
Rob-F said:
Yes I have both M2/M6/MP with the small dial; and M6TTL with the big dial that turns the wrong way. Here's something I've tried out, with some success.

To increase the exposure with M2, M6classic, or MP, we turn the dial counterclockwise. I try to visualize the rear surface of the dial going to the right: that is, going in the same direction the underexposure LED is pointing in the M6 classic or MP.

Now, with the M6TTL, when I want to increase exposure, I visualize the frontedge of the dial moving to the right. That's easy because the larger dial on these cameras comes much closer to the front of the camera. This automatically turns the dial clockwise.

So: classic cameras, rear edge of dial goes in the direction the arrow is pointing. M6 TTL, front edge goes in the arrow direction.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Thats, what I do with the M6/ M7 R-D1/ M8.

The M6 dial is a bit smaller and I change shutter mostly with my right thumb coming from under the wind lever.

The M7/ M8 dial is big and much easier to shift from the front with my index finder.

In both cases, I have to move the dial into the same direction, corresponding to the meter LEDs.

I don't get confused by it.
 
It's not really a big deal but as Tom A. says you can make mistakes in the heat of battle. I used MP and M7 bodies together for a while but I don't remember any problems. I think it's down to individual differences.
 
peter_n is right, it's an individual thing. When I used my SLR kit (two lenses) with my RF kit it drove me crazy one set of glass focused one way, the other the opposite, aperture when opposite too. I ended up falling in love with the Nikon (one hand focus for wide and normal glass) and switched to a Nikon RF. Switching to a Leica SL II would have been too expensive for me.

Best part about options, everyone gets to approach it their own way.

B2 (;->
 
I guess the SS dial doesn't bother me because I have way too many cameras with way too many different controls. The one that does get me is which way the lens turns to focus.
 
It's never bothered me even though I'm aperture priority all the way, i.e., I almost always decide on the aperture 1st & then let the shutter speed fall where it may. When the light changes, I change the shutter speed, not the aperture.

Like nobbylon, et al., I think the reason it's not a problem for me is because all of my cameras that have shutter speed dials going the old-fashioned direction, e.g., M3, lack built-in meters, so I'm using a handheld meter & setting shutter speeds ahead of time anyway. Same goes for all my non-Leica RFs (Contax, Nikon, etc.). On the rare occasion I need to adjust the shutter speed while looking through the VF, I'm able to remember the difference (lack of LEDs, etc. is a big clue). The modern MP's reversion to the old shutter speed dial direction & size is the main reason why that model doesn't appeal to me. If the camera is aperture-priority automated, like the M7, Hexar RF, or Kyocera Contax G2, I'm pretty indifferent to the shutter speed dial because I'll usually make adjustments by pointing the camera @ different parts of the scene & then engage the exposure lock.

The difference in focus direction, & often length of focus throw, between the Leica & Zeiss Ikon Contax/Nikon RFs is harder for me to handle quickly. I can adjust given enough time, but if I need to quickly switch between multiple bodies, I try to make sure all the lenses focus in the same direction.

gotium said:
Amongst those of you who have multiple rangefinder bodies, do any of you consistently use manual exposure on two bodies where the shutter speed dials are oriented in opposite directions? For example, an M7 and a Zeiss Ikon, or an M8 and an MP?

Does it drive you nuts, or do you get used to it?
Click to expand...
 
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I guess it depends on two things:

- if one works with aperture as the priority it gets more important
- if one prefers to 'program' routines in oneself as much as possible

I used to drive trams - and at that time in Oslo there were 3 totally different types with equally different controls. The old ones from 52 had a command wheel for braking + accelleration, and a pedal for magnetic brakes and sand. The modern ones had a lever for brakes/accelleration - and the same pedal for extra brakes. Then there was a third type that had pedals like a car with automatic transmission - and two buttons on the dashboard for magnetic brakes and/or sand........

It worked fine though, due to the 3 types being very different in most respects. Even the first times I had to perform miracles to save recless drivers (a tram generally cuts through anything in its way), there was no mistakes or delays.

This is the kind of hard-wiring that I myself at least is very prone to develop after a while. Focus and aperture-ring direction is a given, has always had systems which were the same as Leica. But then the new Ms come along - being the same as an M3 in all respects handlingwise - except the shutter dial!!!

When I really concentrated on Leica-style photography some years ago, I automatically adjusted the shutter when entering or exiting an alley for instance. One does get very good at these sorts of things if practicing it, and I had several instances where I just did a shot very quickly - due to getting the controls and levels of light hardwired in my reflexes...

I guess it all depends - but at least for me it is this way, and therefore I would pay anything up to something like $500 to have a reversal of either my M8 or say an M2!!!
 
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