sick of reliability issues...

Good luck, Phil. My M8 needed a new sensor (under warranty luckily) but the M9 has been great so far.

I think of hot pixels as the dust of the digital world. Definitely map 'em out in LR! But ultimately you need to feel confident in your cameras, and if you can't, then you gotta move on.
 
Forget the D2X.

The D200/300/700/D3 all work well with manual focus lenses. The D2X sensor is inferior to all but the D200. However the D2X is a tank. So if you need a really tough body I guess it's worth it. A few years ago I met a pro who shot sports 6 or 7 days a week all year long. He had a suitcase full (literally) of surplus D2X bodies wrapped in towels. All of them had exceeded the MTBF shutter rating. All of them worked and he was selling them for a song.

A nice D300 is about $900-$1000 (US). The D700 handles manual focus better than the D300. However it is noticeably larger and louder too.

Of course DSLRs are heavy and loud compared to the M9 (but you already know that). I have owned two, D200s, a D300 and two D700s. None of them has had a problem. Needless to say you will find many people who experienced reliability problems with any camera system.
 
A brass Leica lens on a brass body feels about the same weight as my Fuji S5. Yes the Fuji is a bit bigger but then I think the M9 is a bit bigger and fatter than an MP. There really isn't that much difference.


leica_MP_fuji_s5_588W.jpg


MCTuomey said:
Me, I really like the output, especially in print, from the M8/9 with the glass I have. That's the upshot. An M8/9 is expensive to acquire and expensive to repair and maintain. At this point, I'm reconciled to those facts. The pictures make it worth it to me.
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I really like the pictures from the M9 too Mike and I'd much rather use a rangefinder than a dSLR but until Leica gets the M9 sorted I'll wait, and my blood pressure will stay normal. 🙂 In maybe 2-3 years?
 
peter_n said:
I really like the pictures from the M9 too Mike and I'd much rather use a rangefinder than a dSLR but until Leica gets the M9 sorted I'll wait, and my blood pressure will stay normal. 🙂 In maybe 2-3 years?
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As one who's M9 has been back to Leica (one of the small batch with the cracked sensor problem) I appreciate both sides of the argument. I wish it hadn't had the problem, but it still remains the best tool for the job as far as I'm concerened, and that outweighs everything else. I also know that the relative few cameras that have suffered problems get reported time after time on the internet which makes the situation look far worse than it is.

So consider all the many thousands of people who are using an M9 without any problems and take that as a true state of affairs.

Steve
 
Sick of it

Sick of it

Hey Phil, sorry to hear about your troubles! Sell em both! ;-) Pick up a late serial M4-2 (clean for $850.00) and you're back in biz!

Regards.

Montie
 
It's just the nature of digital sensors' problems. Using negatives have it's issues (scratch, dust, bad batch of emulsion etc) and digital have it's, you just got to live with it, i.e send it back AGAIN (even if it's for the 10th time) and c'est la vie, bad luck, mal chance.
 
Could it be that the digital Leicas are boutique items and not intended for pro use? I use my M8 for newspaper work and, so far, it's been fine. But I also use Canon D1 and D20 cameras and they, too, have been fine and at a much lower cost than the Leicas. I still shoot black and white film for some assignments - and I can get away with that - but if I know I'm going to have to depend on digital, I'll go with the Canons. It's too bad, but that's how life is right now out here in the country.
 
I'd keep the film Leicas and buy a Nikon D700 for digital. OK, you'll need a complete set of Nikon lenses, but you can buy old MF lenses for peanuts.
 
peter_n said:
A brass Leica lens on a brass body feels about the same weight as my Fuji S5. Yes the Fuji is a bit bigger but then I think the M9 is a bit bigger and fatter than an MP. There really isn't that much difference.


leica_MP_fuji_s5_588W.jpg


I really like the pictures from the M9 too Mike and I'd much rather use a rangefinder than a dSLR but until Leica gets the M9 sorted I'll wait, and my blood pressure will stay normal. 🙂 In maybe 2-3 years?
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Waiting is not a bad idea at all, Peter. Especially with the results you get from what you're shooting today. Gear fits aren't conducive to good photography 🙂
 
So I had a shoot to do last night at a club for a magazine, a funk band. I know the owner, a hole in the knee jeans wearing billionaire who is a devout photo nut. Unlike the press and other photogs, he usually lets me bring what ever gear I want if I ask him first and not use flash. But last night I could not get ahold of him right away, so I made a simple plan.

I took my D700 with a 35 1.4G and my X100 and stuffed into a bag and then went to dinner with my wife. I decided that if I could get ahold of him, I would use the D700, if not, I would just stuff the X100 in my pocket and get the job done anyway, knew he would not mind.

I had to go with the X100 since I did not hear from him. In short, it totally blew my mind how it did, nailed focus 95% of the time and even did fantastic in tracking the action. No one really noticed me using it and when they did, it looked like a point and shoot of which it is not.

What I am trying to say, to the OP, is that life is too short for frustration. If you have the money to use the M9 as a 10% of the time tool, then you will feel less pressure to use it all the time. But most of us working shooters don't have that kind of disposable cash and even though I now do have the money to get one, I need tools that do the same thing, day after day, hour after hour with a minimum of fuss and frustration not to mention maintenance and the price being one that does not erode my travel and book project budgets. The D3, D700 and yes, even the quirky X100 do that for me in flawless fashion.

If you give up on the M9, get an X100, it is a total game changer of a camera and if I can put 10,000++ frames through it in less than three months with no issues at all and even a members of Magnum can use it, so can you...

Leica is fantastic gear, but unfortunately, it is fantastically priced and fantastically problematic at times and at the end of the day, a talented photographer will make his best images with the tool he trusts the most and as you know, nothing else in the world of photography matters as much as how good your images are....

Time to grab my M6, M3 and go shoot some Tri-x, all this red dot talk is making me hungry for the real thing...🙂
 
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All cameras get hot pixels. It's just that some have a firmware routine to map them out (e.g. Olympus, Panasonic), and some don't (Leica).

There is not reason to dump Leica. Instead, get this free software (PC-only unfortunately): http://pixelfixer.org/

You calibrate it once, then run it on each folder full of RAW files before bringing it into your RAW developer program. Save the trip to Leica repair for a truly serious issue. This isn't one. It may also be that the vertical line you think you have is just a processing artifact of another hot pixel. Try PixelFixer and see.

--Peter
 
So if I spend $9K on a M9, and hot pixels cause significant artifacts (vertical lines). I am supposed to use third party donation-funded software and add a batch processing step to my workflow?

Or I should register as a Leica Pro so my camera gets repaired in a timely fashion? And, when warranty has expired I then pay for hot pixel adjustment?

And, these options are acceptable and normal procedures for M8/9 owners?
 
willie_901 said:
Forget the D2X.

The D200/300/700/D3 all work well with manual focus lenses. The D2X sensor is inferior to all but the D200. However the D2X is a tank. So if you need a really tough body I guess it's worth it. A few years ago I met a pro who shot sports 6 or 7 days a week all year long. He had a suitcase full (literally) of surplus D2X bodies wrapped in towels. All of them had exceeded the MTBF shutter rating. All of them worked and he was selling them for a song.

A nice D300 is about $900-$1000 (US). The D700 handles manual focus better than the D300. However it is noticeably larger and louder too.

Of course DSLRs are heavy and loud compared to the M9 (but you already know that). I have owned two, D200s, a D300 and two D700s. None of them has had a problem. Needless to say you will find many people who experienced reliability problems with any camera system.
Click to expand...

Forget the D2x? Nah...great camera! Used it for quite awhile and cannot recommend it any higher! They are available for around $800 these days.🙂

But, seriously, why not just work out the situation with Leica?
 
I think KM-25 had a great observation:

"Leica is fantastic gear, but unfortunately, it is fantastically priced and fantastically problematic at times and at the end of the day, a talented photographer will make his best images with the tool he trusts the most and as you know, nothing else in the world of photography matters as much as how good your images are...."

IMHO, the more I read about the reliability issues of Leica digital bodies, the less attractive they seem.

My M6 has worked flawlessly, and I enjoy using it. I have no desire to 'trade up' to a digital M-body.

For faster work-flow and more strenuous conditions, I use my 5DmkII. I've never had a hot pixel, nor a single reliability issue. I've shot tens of thousands of actuations on that camera and it has never let me down. I took it through 7 countries in SE Asia during monsoon season in 2009, and it never failed me. It's a damn good camera.

I hate to say it, but Leica seems to not seem to have its act together with the digital bodies. Frankly, it's unbelievable how many posts I read on RFF and elsewhere about "oh, I had to send my M8 to Leica NJ", or "still waiting for my M9 warranty repair from Solms." I mean, come on! This is a $7000 camera we're talking about. At let's not even get started about the whole IR sensitivity fiasco with the M8.
 
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bobby_novatron said:
I mean, come on! This is a $7000 camera we're talking about.
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I don't get it. Why do people always think that they get a more reliable camera just because it's expensive. You get a handmade, small series camera that's different and it's the only one of it's class. That's why people pay $7000.

No one is really shocked that there are some cheaper japanese cars that are more reliable than a BMW 7 or S-class Mercedes.
 
tom.w.bn -- you are correct. I did not want to come off as sounding like I was disparaging the Leica brand. Frankly, I'm very glad Leica is still around and has managed to survive into the 21st century. I am sure that many Leica M8 and M9 users are very satisfied with their purchases.

That being said, the reliability experiences of the OP and others seem somewhat disappointing. Yes, it's an expensive hand-made camera that's manufactured in small batches. In my opinion, that fact alone means the harsh glare of consumer scrutiny shines brightly on their quality control.
 
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