sick of reliability issues...

Phil_F_NM said:
Your good experience with Leica service on your digital cameras is not necessarily the norm. Our local Leica dealer here in Philly has had to send 3 M9 bodies back within a month (mine will be the fourth) for pixel issues. Mine also has the shutter issue.
I found my first glaring hot pixel in my M9 only a few days after I purchased it new from a Leica dealer and upon returning it, I was not offered a loaner camera. In fact, Leica billed me for shipping, so we may be talking about two different companies. What I've seen here in the states with Leica service is that they are unbelievably slow. They have had my M8 for 2 full months this week and that is for a CLA plus rangefinder recalibration. And the charge? $630 USD + shipping. Hardly a week, hardly courtesy. I still don't have it back and do not know when it will arrive.

Phil Forrest
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As a matter of fact we are talking about two different companies. Leica Solms, whom I deal with is separate from Leica NJ. The service should be the same but sometimes seems not to be, although the USA Customs department appears to play havoc with the turnaround times as well. But anyway, if you use your cameras professionally you can register for pro service which entails a two-day turnaround and loaners - not a courtesy like in my case, but a right, and for us amateur lowlife there is the paid express service - see Leica's website.
 
Regarding repair time, when you say it was a courtesy in your case, then the one week turnaround and the loaner camera does not apply for most Leica digital users?

If you know of a program which will allow us to extend our warranties, please pass that information along, as I've asked previously.

Regardless, the reliability and further, the service of these cameras needs to be improved for the price that we pay. I have 192 days of actual shooting with the M9 between the time that it returned from service and the pixel and shutter fault errors.
It's been great but it's absolutely unacceptable.

Phil Forrest
 
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literiter said:
...Why in heck can't I tell the difference between a picture taken with my ratty old Nikon and my Leica M2 both using 50mm lenses?
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Because you shoot film and/or black and white perhaps? With digital my Nikkor 50/1.8 & 50/1.4 look different from my Summicron & Summilux asph and pre-asph, at least in color.
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Regarding repair time, when you say it was a courtesy in your case, then the one week turnaround and the loaner camera does not apply for most Leica digital users?

If you know of a program which will allow us to extend our warranties, please pass that information along, as I've asked previously.

Regardless, the reliability and further, the service of these cameras needs to be improved for the price that we pay. I have 192 days of actual shooting with the M9 between the time that it returned from service and the pixel and shutter fault errors.
It's been great but it's absolutely unacceptable.

Phil Forrest
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Yes there is a warranty extension. A camera like yours with a major repair will be returned to you with a warranty of a year on the whole camera. Many users have sent in their M8 for maintenance just at the end of the two-year warranty period for this reason. Likewise for the upgrade of the M8 or the M9. It is possible to buy an extended warranty on an M9 without repair or upgrade (but with CLA). See Leica's website.

According to Leica Solms, the standard five day in-house turnaround (without shipping etc) on the M9 is attained in 85 % of the repairs.
I understand from my American friends that Leica NJ is improving dramatically.
 
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We all know Leica is far from reliable, it's OK, nothing special. All the film bodies are minor evolutions from the M3, yet people pay twice the money for an M6 instead of an M4P (lol, that makes sense), but the Lenses are everything people have hyped about, not the camera bodies, so can we nip this in the bud now?
 
literiter said:
I have a M2 and a M4-P. They share a 35mm and 50mm Summicron which I use the most. The biggest advantage I have with these cameras would have to be no batteries, smallish and I have owned them for quite a few years.

The lenses are quite adequate and very small. Bonus! My Nikon F3 is a lot bigger and uses batteries.

Now for the most plebeian question; Why in heck can't I tell the difference between a picture taken with my ratty old Nikon and my Leica M2 both using 50mm lenses?
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Because usually, at most apertures and with most subjects, with most films, the differences are trivial. In fact, you've prompted a new thread...

Edit: New thread here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110212

Cheers,

R.
 
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LCT said:
Because you shoot film and/or black and white perhaps? With digital my Nikkor 50/1.8 & 50/1.4 look different from my Summicron & Summilux asph and pre-asph, at least in color.
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I primarily used Kodachrome back when it was available and plentiful. The results were typical, and to my eyes identical, for my Nikon as well as my Leicas.

I tried Kodak's Tech Pan film as well a few times. I was surprised to note that the Nikon with the 50mm f1.4 was at least as sharp if not actually sharper than my (new at the time) 50mm Summicron.

I came away from these experiments with the notion that it all is really quite irrelevant; I can take just as a terrible shot with my Leicas as I can with my Nikons.

I believe today, as I notice many people are, that it really doesn't matter; Lens quality will not make a fine picture, but I might.
 
literiter said:
I came away from these experiments with the notion that it all is really quite irrelevant; I can take just as a terrible shot with my Leicas as I can with my Nikons.

I believe today, as I notice many people are, that it really doesn't matter; Lens quality will not make a fine picture, but I might.
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Good comment, agreed! But you might generally enjoy using one type of camera more than another, somewhat depending on the task too.

I enjoy using my Pentax film cameras, but don't care for the user interface on my Pentax dSLRs. I also like to use my Leica M2, and equally well the M8 and M9 as they are relatively easy to handle.

One (used) M8 has been flawless. One dealer-demo M8 went to NJ with a sensor line, and the (used) M9 went later for sensor issues. The used cameras were bought from private parties, but Leica performed the service at no charge. Turnaround time for me, with shipping clear across the US, was a month. Sending a Pentax to Hendrickson for CLA takes the same..

Most of my M lenses have gone to DAG for coding and focus adjustment. Now that all this is sorted out, the Leica gear is running smoothly and I'm very pleased.

I do believe that Jaap is right about the magnifying effect of internet forums in seeming to show more and worse problems, out of proportion. Good news just doesn't travel as well as bad news! For those with bad experiences, I sympathize, wish you better luck, an urge good communication with service providers.
 
I have the dreaded vertical line. I've tried"Pixel Fixel" if you will. No such luck!
I can't wait to box up my M8 and send it to NJ so they can send me a nice juicy repair bill for known Leica problem.
Yippee!
 
TR3B said:
I have the dreaded vertical line. I've tried"Pixel Fixel" if you will. No such luck!
I can't wait to box up my M8 and send it to NJ so they can send me a nice juicy repair bill for known Leica problem.
Yippee!
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Think positive! My store demo M8 came without registration card, and only a 12-month store warranty. At 16 months I sent it in with that vertical line problem, and Leica fixed it at no charge.

If you contact your dealer, they will surely be helpful in handling the repair return for you. Or contact your importer directly. They will not give repair estimates before seeing the camera, but they will give you the go-ahead to send it in, and thus will be expecting it. Enclose a letter with a complete but concise description of the problem, and illustrations if you can. Help them help you... and good luck.

Edit: And here's a tip for fixing your affected photos with that vertical line... The idea is to eliminate that bad vertical column of one-pixel width. I worked on the full-res TIFF output of my RAW conversion software. With your TIFF displayed at 100%, locate that bad line. Select everything to the right of that line in your file and move it one pixel to the left, covering the bad line. At the M8 resolution you will not be able to detect the missing pixel column... the line will simply be gone from that image file.
 
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TR3B: I hear you. There is a member who posted earlier in the thread his cost in USD for a vertical line issue, I think. I want to say it's around $1300USD but could be mistaken. Here's hoping that it gets fixed at little or even better, no cost to you.

It's this vertical line thing that I hate. I could have a bunch of regular hot pixels and can map them in post but that vertical line is so hard to fix. Especially if I've got a large number of files to work with and it's in every one, each with different gradations in tone and color. I think it's impossible to automate its removal for bulk processing.

Good luck!
Phil Forrest
 
Interesting factoid:
I noticed yesterday that my wife's Olympus P&S, an XZ1, has "sensor mapping" as a menu item.
 
Why is it that Doug has sent in his camera for a fix and it was done at no charge yet no one else can seem to find the same Leica NJ location and do the same thing?:angel:

Seriously. It doesn't make sense. I have never had a camera sent in for repair but if I did have a problem, damned if I wouldn't follow through immediately and have it fixed.

Looking forward to the outcome on these.

BTW, every Nikon DSLR I ever owned had hot pixels and some kind of crappy issue but I worked around them and eventually sold them all. Just never sent one in for repair.
 
Phil_F_NM said:
...and kind of sick of digital as a result.

So, I just found ANOTHER hot pixel in my M9.
The first one I found was in the M8 a few months after I got it. I
dealt with it as long as possible but I had to have a digital
camera.

When I got the M9, I found the hot pixel 3 days after taking possession
of it. I then sent the M8 out for repair and almost 3 months later, it
came back in better condition.
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I understand your frustration, but it makes me think about the guy who had a horse-drawn coach and bought a horseless carriage just because everybody else was doing it. No need to pick up manure, maintain a stable, feed the horse...but...but! The horseless carriage wouldn't stop at his whistles (awful design flaw) and the food (the hipsters called it "gasoline") couldn't be handled while he smoked his pipe. Shame on Benz!



Anyhoo...

http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/hot_pixel_facts.html


http://www.mediachance.com/digicam/hotpixels.htm


http://nzdigital.blogspot.com/2008/03/canon-5d-and-hot-pixels.html



etc.
 
:p
dave lackey said:
Why is it that Doug has sent in his camera for a fix and it was done at no charge yet no one else can seem to find the same Leica NJ location and do the same thing?:angel:

Seriously. It doesn't make sense. I have never had a camera sent in for repair but if I did have a problem, damned if I wouldn't follow through immediately and have it fixed.

Looking forward to the outcome on these.

BTW, every Nikon DSLR I ever owned had hot pixels and some kind of crappy issue but I worked around them and eventually sold them all. Just never sent one in for repair.
Click to expand...

Shame on you for talking common sense on an Internet forum!:mad::p
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Steve, the shutter fault camera is an M9. It's the one I've been complaining about since it is going back to Leica for a stuck hot pixel that is really annoying.
Newest firmware updated the day after it came out a few months ago.

Patrickjames: I've got a Leica M9, an M8 an M4 and I'll have a D2x in a few months so I'll be set on backups. I love the pro-level Nikons and have a few year's experience with them so the d2x will serve me very well in spite of it not being the most current. It's still one of the best DSLRs available, and these days they are available for cheap. Nikon still services them in case I need it. And they are quick and much cheaper than Leica service usually.

Phil Forrest
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Loved my D2X almost as much as the D2h...but expect hot pixels with it too.;) The cool thing about the D2x is the purchase price now is around $800!!!
 
I think one of the issues is that Leica seems to pick and choose who it charges for sensor remapping / replacement and who it serves gratis.

Phil Forrest
 
hmmm, in our family there have been the following camera bodies: Pentax k10D x2: no hot pixels. Pentax k20D: no hot pixels; Canon 40D: no hot pixels. Olympus E-3 and E-P2: no hot pixels; Nikon D80, D300x2, and D700: no hot pixels. My son's D700, D90, and Lumix 3 (whatever it is): no hot pixels. My other son's k10D, and his Oly 520: no hot pixels. Not only no pixel issues, no issues of any kind whatsoever: none, nada, zip, zero.

Each camera has enjoyed a rough minimum of 6 months use, and, where resold, subsequent purchaser, save for one gentleman who was trying to get 100ISO performance out of Max ISO for a K10D, never reported an issue to me. Most of our gear has enjoyed multiple years of continuous use.

So, as a context for the purchase of an M9, that's the history out of which we expect any such high-end-cost piece of gear to operate. And to have the apparent service variability for defects, that is flat-arse unacceptable in my view.
 
I had the D80, D90 and the D300 at work that I used everyday. All three had hot pixels.

The old saying is, "You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.".
 
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