Sigma DP1 or?, let's sort this out

[Lucasnilsson]

so i've been looking for a camera that i can carry around all of the time. getting tired of leaving the cameras at home because of the bulk and then seeing incredible photo opportunities and miss them.:bang:



the sigma seems like a nice camera. been looking around a bit and i got a few questions. for low light photography i assume that you'll use the MF. will the MF work with the display off? will it go back to AF everytime i turn off the camera or will it remember the settings?
I assume that the MF will keep the settings between shots.


battery life in real life?

shutter sound. it's possible to turn the "volume" off and just have the "click" as on the G9 and most of the other compacts?


otherwise, got my mamiya6, 40D and 2000fcw so I got that sorted. cheaper in the long run with digital though. especially for snapshots, but i still want the ability to make nice prints and not feeling limited by the image quality

is the dp1 something for me or should I look at something else?

thanks in advance guys

 

[nightlight]

I have not handled the DP1 but if I were in your shoes, I would definitely try to check one out at your local store. From what I can see, the images that foveon sensor produces are quite nice!

That said it does not look small enough for me to put in a shirt pocket and walk around, maybe the GR-D might be better in that aspect.

In any case, the best advice is, try one out if you can!

clarel

 

[Keith]

The one thing that puts me off these high end point and shoots no matter how good an image they can produce is the shutter lag. Unless you're prepared to manually pre-focus it's a problem and makes them a little unsuitable for candids IMO. It's all very well to have a sensor this capable in what is still basically a pocket digicam but their inabilty to auto focus as rapidly as a good DSLR means their only advantage is size ... or lack of it I should say!

I think I'd get a second hand GRD before I'd pay the asking price of the DP1.

 

[cam]

f/4 is mighty slow and low light (depending on how low we're talking about) is very iffy on this.

MF will stay between shots.

battery life sucks in real life.

you can make the camera silent.

it *is* pocketable, though not quite as small as the Ricoh.

the images are absolutely stunning -- the lens razor sharp without being clinical and the sensor is gorgeous;y full of depth. but but but it is the slowest camera in the world and can frustrate mightily!

if i were you, i'd seriously wait until after Photokina to see what is announced. they may have worked out the kinks and/or people will bail for the new 4/3 cameras and the prices will fall.

i have a truly love/hate with this camera. my jaw drops when i get something spot on. but i rarely choose to use it (grab the GRD instead) as it's so slow and miserable to use... yet i can't seem to sell it because of the image quality -- arghhhhhh!

 

[__hh]

That is one mighty fine photo - regardless of which camera took it

 

[cam]

That is one mighty fine photo - regardless of which camera took it

thank you!

i was having a long lunch with a fellow GRD user and trying to convince him how wonderful the DP1 image quality was. the interface turned him off completely, except for the MF wheel -- which is wonderful in theory but is nullified by the truly crappy screen. if you can guess the distance and are stopped down enough, fine. but if you're really trying to focus, no cigar.

to be fair, though, i doubt i would have bothered to shoot this if i hadn't been so hell bent on proving how good the DP1 was

 

[allen_a_george]

Why don't you wait till Photokina? Maybe some mfgs will introduce cameras in the class you're looking for. No promises, rumors to spread, or anything - just saying that it may be best to hold on to your cash for now.

 

[erichard44]

I don't have the DP 1 yet, although I did pick one up, just to see how small it was, in Hong Kong. Shirt-pocket? No, but isn't that a pretty poor idea anyway?

From the Sigma users on one big forum the consensus seems to be, after listening to (or reading) the dreadful howling about how slow it is, most DP1 users are pleasantly surprised when they actually take pictures. What i have personally enjoyed are some of the "reviews" that display superb images and a series of complaints.... It's almost as if they don't even look at the images and realize what they are holding.

Meanwhile, I know in terms of results the DP1 is better than the SD10, which I Have and which produces superb colors and images. Most serious users of the DP1 turn off the auto functions to some extent and avoid shutter lag entirely. It is not really a serious issue on the camera, apparently. Same goes for the LCD: perfect or ideal? No, but functional. Or one can get the latest tiny sensor cam and make do.

Richard

 

[deepwhite]

To me the image quality that the DP-1 offers is revolutionary. The transition is smooth as hell. In 100% crop comparison it often outperforms a mid-level DSLR. Yet from the comment of most DP-1 users, while they all love this camera, it seems really NOT a point-and-shoot.

I'm expecting new camera that uses DP-1's sensor technology.

 

[historicist]

I used a DP1 for two weeks (in Germany you can borrow one for a couple of weeks for 20 euro or so). The AF, while slow, wasn't as irritating as I thought it would be, and the results are very good for a compact, way better than the GRD I used to have.

The build quality is also very good, again better than the GRD in my opinion, and although there is quite a lot of noise at high isos, it seems to be mostly luminance noise and gives the images a pleasant grainy feel. The flash metering seemed to be good, and the flash is quite discreet in use.

The interface isn't too well thought out (iso in particular, needs a dedicated button) but not too bad.

However, the RAW conversion software is dreadful, and you can't use lightroom etc. After using a slow camera, a RAW converter that is as slow as wading through treacle is just rubbing it in. And the price is quite hard to justify for a camera that, although it produces good results, is so slow to use.

I could accept that it was not perfect if it was cheaper, but 750 euro..

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I don't know how many times I've had to post this, but there is no shutter lag. The perceived shutter lag comes from the lousy autofocus. In manual focus mode, which for me just means scale focus, you push the button, it takes the picture immediately.

I can do street very easily with the DP1, but not with something like the Fuji F30. The F30 is a great little camera, but there is indeed shutter lag. The DP1, I always get what I want.

Chroma noise is pretty bad at high ISO, but if you're going to convert to B&W, you're in business. In bright light, color is awesome.

 

[blazeicehockey]

so i've been looking for a camera that i can carry around all of the time. getting tired of leaving the cameras at home because of the bulk and then seeing incredible photo opportunities and miss them.:bang:



the sigma seems like a nice camera. been looking around a bit and i got a few questions. for low light photography i assume that you'll use the MF. will the MF work with the display off? will it go back to AF everytime i turn off the camera or will it remember the settings?
I assume that the MF will keep the settings between shots.


battery life in real life?

shutter sound. it's possible to turn the "volume" off and just have the "click" as on the G9 and most of the other compacts?


otherwise, got my mamiya6, 40D and 2000fcw so I got that sorted. cheaper in the long run with digital though. especially for snapshots, but i still want the ability to make nice prints and not feeling limited by the image quality

is the dp1 something for me or should I look at something else?

thanks in advance guys

This argument goes on and on. Its the same as the M8 versus the R-D1. Here's the answer:


If you want the best P&S picture IQ (50-400ISO) from one of the sharpest 28mm lenses around, chose the DP1.
If you absolutely can't live without zooms, fast AF and buffers, choose something else.
If you can afford to wait to see what the micro Oly does - then wait!

end of. period. nuff said.

 

[Lucasnilsson]

found a site where I could download raw files from the dp1. sure looks really, really good. but the editing software is _worthless and really, really slow.

as i've understood there's no alternative to this software? impossible to use bridge/lightroom. just go through the hell of converting to TIFF and then edit in PS?


the new lumix seems likea nice camera aswell. smaller sensor though.

is there any rumors about new cameras that will be able to compete with the dp1 in IQ?

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

found a site where I could download raw files from the dp1. sure looks really, really good. but the editing software is _worthless and really, really slow.

as i've understood there's no alternative to this software? impossible to use bridge/lightroom. just go through the hell of converting to TIFF and then edit in PS?


the new lumix seems likea nice camera aswell. smaller sensor though.

is there any rumors about new cameras that will be able to compete with the dp1 in IQ?

I bet the new Olympus mini-four-thirds system will pretty much crush the DP1. Large-sensor compact with interchangeable lenses! Still, there is something special about the Foveon.

There is currently no alternative to SPP, unfortunately, and yes, you have to convert to TIFF to use in Lightroom. Which is what I do. It sucks.

Adobe support is supposed to be coming, but there seems to be a delay on Sigma's end. I'm getting very impatient, personally, especially given that Oly may come up with something even better.

Also, I got hugely annoyed by my DP1 yesterday--I was out snapping stuff in the garden, then set the camera on the grass for ten minutes. When I picked it up, everything was fogged. Cleaned the lens--still fogged. It was THE SENSOR that had gotten fogged. It wasn't even wet out--but moisture from the ground completely permeated the camera in ten freaking minutes. 20 minutes indoors cleared it up, but wow was I pissed.

 

[retow]

There is no shutter lag with the DP1. In manual mode and zone focusing it is the snappiest street shooter among the compacts. Except that the time out from shot to shot is to long, and that is, as far as I'm concerned, its most annoying weakness. IQ wise, all has been said, and it is not only the sheer size of the sensor which makes the difference. As I posted before, UI wise it grows on you. Not a camera to try in a store for 30 minutes. The DP1 makes you think before taking a photograph, unlike so many other digitals cameras, which make you feel like a computer operator.
And unlike so many other posters who have such a strong view about it, I do own and intensly use one since March.
For landscapes, cityscapes, street (one shot at a time, M mode ZF) it is in a class of its own among compacts.

 

[Avotius]

I have shot almost 16,000 frames with my GRD and have come away with many very printable works. I even did a exhibition where a majority of the photos were taken with the GRD and maybe a third with a leica m6 and zeiss lens. Frankly I kind of wish there were a few different things on the camera, and sometimes I do miss a little zoom, but really its been great to me.

ps. I am highly anticipating the olympus M4/3's thing. I am hoping for something that will have at least a electronic viewfinder and maybe a fast tiny lens like a 35 or 28mm equivalent or better yet a tiny 24-70 type lens.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

There is no shutter lag with the DP1. In manual mode and zone focusing it is the snappiest street shooter among the compacts.

One thing i realized about this yesterday...when i got my DP1, the first thing I did was disable the sounds. Then the other day I updated the firmware, and this reset the settings...and I noticed that, when you have the sounds on, the "shutter" sound plays about a fifth of a second after you take the picture. I suspect people are deceived by this...the sound makes it seem as though there's a shutter lag. But it's just the recorded sound that is lagging, not the shutter.

 

[retow]

I have shot almost 16,000 frames with my GRD and have come away with many very printable works. I even did a exhibition where a majority of the photos were taken with the GRD and maybe a third with a leica m6 and zeiss lens. Frankly I kind of wish there were a few different things on the camera, and sometimes I do miss a little zoom, but really its been great to me.

ps. I am highly anticipating the olympus M4/3's thing. I am hoping for something that will have at least a electronic viewfinder and maybe a fast tiny lens like a 35 or 28mm equivalent or better yet a tiny 24-70 type lens.

Avotius,
How is the GRD1 raw write speed? I thought it is as lighting fast as the DP1's, yet it got never trashed for it, unlike the Sigma.

 

[dazedgonebye]

As others have said, the M4/3rds system looks promising.
My main concern is the use of contrast detection focus. I don't have to have super fast focus, something as fast as my Hexar AF would be fine (slower than a DSLR).
I'm not even too concerned about the quality of the EVF. In all likelyhood, it'll be better than the older systems I've seen and I should find it acceptable.
It all depends on the availability of a fast prime or two.

 

[Avotius]

Avotius,
How is the GRD1 raw write speed? I thought it is as lighting fast as the DP1's, yet it got never trashed for it, unlike the Sigma.

pitifully slow. But it didnt mater, the jpg's were more then fine for what I used it for. One other thing that bothers me about this camera, it remembers all your settings rather well, except if you are doing continuous shoot mode and turn the camera off, it forgets that.