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Magus
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Signature of Leica 28/2-ASPH versus CV 28/1.9 Ultron
- Thread starter Flyfisher Tom
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StuartR
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Yes, well I didn't say it was dark. Still plenty bright enough to see twigs.back alley said:
Flyfisher Tom
Well-known
lol ... let's all step back before I have to get out the jello wrestling pool 🙂
A lot of fine points made, and a lot of fine photos posted.
The thing we should be happy about is:
1) the state of lens technology is so advanced nowadays, we are mostly talking about finer aesthetics such as subjective preferences of signature and/or ergonomics, rather than about competency of lenses to do the job. In researching this so far, I've seen nothing that the Cron can do that the Ultron can't do, and, frankly, nothing that the Ultron can do that the Cron can't do. It is a 28, so signature, other than in environmental portraiture, will share great similarities. To really find out what these fine differences are, we would need to shoot same subjects at same f/stops, which is unlikely to happen. Whether one's MTF chart is better than another in marginal terms is moot. I 'assume' that the Cron is better in that department. But, as Stuart pointed out, it is the photographer that matters most. In all of the photos posted, I can't really tell you with any certaintly (had I not known) which lens was used. And if Todd or Glen or Steve , or Doug suddenly told me, oops, it was a different lens, I would not have been able to correct them based on 'distinct' characteristics between these lenses. These lenses are that close. And believe it or not, that is a good thing for all of us. Choice is always good.
2) that our myriad choices allow us to LOVE our own lenses and still accommodate for the possibility that others love theirs as well 😉
cheers and thanks for all who posted
by all means, post more if you've got them
happy 4th for the yanks
happy new week for our world friends
A lot of fine points made, and a lot of fine photos posted.
The thing we should be happy about is:
1) the state of lens technology is so advanced nowadays, we are mostly talking about finer aesthetics such as subjective preferences of signature and/or ergonomics, rather than about competency of lenses to do the job. In researching this so far, I've seen nothing that the Cron can do that the Ultron can't do, and, frankly, nothing that the Ultron can do that the Cron can't do. It is a 28, so signature, other than in environmental portraiture, will share great similarities. To really find out what these fine differences are, we would need to shoot same subjects at same f/stops, which is unlikely to happen. Whether one's MTF chart is better than another in marginal terms is moot. I 'assume' that the Cron is better in that department. But, as Stuart pointed out, it is the photographer that matters most. In all of the photos posted, I can't really tell you with any certaintly (had I not known) which lens was used. And if Todd or Glen or Steve , or Doug suddenly told me, oops, it was a different lens, I would not have been able to correct them based on 'distinct' characteristics between these lenses. These lenses are that close. And believe it or not, that is a good thing for all of us. Choice is always good.
2) that our myriad choices allow us to LOVE our own lenses and still accommodate for the possibility that others love theirs as well 😉
cheers and thanks for all who posted
by all means, post more if you've got them
happy 4th for the yanks
happy new week for our world friends
Flyfisher Tom
Well-known
Magus,
You might already be aware of this photog's work.
http://www.pbase.com/j_a_a/streets_of_oporto_bw
But the 35ASPHcron in his (her) hands certainly impresses ... which is to say, that photog is a good photog 🙂 Judging by that photog's work, I'd have no worries about the 35ASPHcron, it is precise, yet has character in a lot of the OOF shots.
And to be fair, he could have gotten the same shot with ANY 35mm lens in all likelihood.
cheers
You might already be aware of this photog's work.
http://www.pbase.com/j_a_a/streets_of_oporto_bw
But the 35ASPHcron in his (her) hands certainly impresses ... which is to say, that photog is a good photog 🙂 Judging by that photog's work, I'd have no worries about the 35ASPHcron, it is precise, yet has character in a lot of the OOF shots.
And to be fair, he could have gotten the same shot with ANY 35mm lens in all likelihood.
cheers
M
Magus
Guest
Post deleted by posters request
Didier
"Deed"
I'm in the situation that I have a newly aquired R-D1 so the 28mm focal length gets even more important as it was when I shot on film with a M6. I already own the 28 Color Skopar which is a beautiful lens, sharp, compact, well built, an every-day multi-purpose lens for me, except for available light situations.
So there is the Ultron 1.9/28, the Summicron 2/28, and the Biogon 2.8/28.
Letting the very subjective "signature" discussion by side, there are some more objective features like price and size. Ultron wins by the price, but is last when it comes to size (63mm long), where the Summicron easily wins (40mm). The Biogon is in the middle with price and size (51mm), but falls back as it is only one stop faster than the Color Skopar.
So my final question is: size or price? Summicron or Ultron? Size matters as it is one of the reasons why I have chosen rangefinders, and price matters because SWMBO says so. Difficult question and I will not have my answer today...
Didier
So there is the Ultron 1.9/28, the Summicron 2/28, and the Biogon 2.8/28.
Letting the very subjective "signature" discussion by side, there are some more objective features like price and size. Ultron wins by the price, but is last when it comes to size (63mm long), where the Summicron easily wins (40mm). The Biogon is in the middle with price and size (51mm), but falls back as it is only one stop faster than the Color Skopar.
So my final question is: size or price? Summicron or Ultron? Size matters as it is one of the reasons why I have chosen rangefinders, and price matters because SWMBO says so. Difficult question and I will not have my answer today...
Didier
J. Borger
Well-known
Dougg,
Many thanks for the B&W samples ... these realy help!
FF Tom
Yes .. that Oporto gallery made me keep the the 35 cron ASPH for now..... i love the lower contrast she has in those pictures ...... with the R-D1 it is almost impossible to get low contrast like that .. unlesssss ... you shoot exclusively in certain weather conditions. And that is my main problem with the 35 cron asph (and i am afraid with the 28 cron asph??) it very often lets me down on sunny days. By blocking shadows and producing muddy files!
Leicalux,
Get the crap word out of your dictionary ........ for me lenssignature is THE MOST INPORTANT criterium when buying a lens.
For architecture or landscapes i sometimes prefer the latest lensdesigns..... for candids, street and portraits ....... older lenses.
In the 50 range i use my summitar and pre asph lux far more often than the 50 cron (latest).
For 35mm it is 80% pre-asph lux vs. 20% 35 cron asph
So now tell me i am an idiot 🙄
Many thanks for the B&W samples ... these realy help!
FF Tom
Yes .. that Oporto gallery made me keep the the 35 cron ASPH for now..... i love the lower contrast she has in those pictures ...... with the R-D1 it is almost impossible to get low contrast like that .. unlesssss ... you shoot exclusively in certain weather conditions. And that is my main problem with the 35 cron asph (and i am afraid with the 28 cron asph??) it very often lets me down on sunny days. By blocking shadows and producing muddy files!
Leicalux,
Get the crap word out of your dictionary ........ for me lenssignature is THE MOST INPORTANT criterium when buying a lens.
For architecture or landscapes i sometimes prefer the latest lensdesigns..... for candids, street and portraits ....... older lenses.
In the 50 range i use my summitar and pre asph lux far more often than the 50 cron (latest).
For 35mm it is 80% pre-asph lux vs. 20% 35 cron asph
So now tell me i am an idiot 🙄
M
Magus
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M
Magus
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J. Borger
Well-known
Magus,
I am not sure who pointed me to this Oporto gallery ...... i did my share of surfing with regard to the 35 cron asph in order to keep or sell ... it's hard for me to tell how i got to that gallery. I do not think it was you.
Instead of handprinting the solution here for sunnyday shooting with the 35 asph cron is very carefull exposure and a lot of post-processing .... often ruining the files.
For the 50 ASPH .... i never saw a disapinting sample from that lens.
From what i see on-line it is the most convincing asph lens so far.
I like the combination of sharp but at the same time smooth and full of character wide open.
I would buy that lens in a heartbeat .... but i am already very satisfied with my 50's set up ....!
I am not sure who pointed me to this Oporto gallery ...... i did my share of surfing with regard to the 35 cron asph in order to keep or sell ... it's hard for me to tell how i got to that gallery. I do not think it was you.
Instead of handprinting the solution here for sunnyday shooting with the 35 asph cron is very carefull exposure and a lot of post-processing .... often ruining the files.
For the 50 ASPH .... i never saw a disapinting sample from that lens.
From what i see on-line it is the most convincing asph lens so far.
I like the combination of sharp but at the same time smooth and full of character wide open.
I would buy that lens in a heartbeat .... but i am already very satisfied with my 50's set up ....!
Last edited:
M
Magus
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Captain
Well-known
The only weird thing is that I never saw a used one for sale...so, I think I must be waiting for a long while before I can purchase one!
"I have noticed this as well and am guessing that most people who
buy a 28/3.5 decide to keep it.
I actually have one for sale but have been too lazy to post it in the classifieds section
"I have noticed this as well and am guessing that most people who
buy a 28/3.5 decide to keep it.
I actually have one for sale but have been too lazy to post it in the classifieds section
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
I would have to strongly disagree with you on both your comments. There have been many who didnt like the Summicron 28. I fortunately tried one before I purchased and was quite disapointed with it. The light fall off wasnt just typcal of a 28mm f2 it was really serious for a lens of its cost. Compared to the falloff of a 28mm Nikon F2 I have it was a big let down. Sure the lens was sharp and contrasty but that fall off reminded me of a 15 rather than a 28. I suspect that in order to make this lens so small was a compromise. Best 28mm lens in 35mm photography, no sorry it isnt. It doesnt just have this severe light fall off at f2 its still quite poor at 2.8 as well. Even the Rokkor 28m I had on hand had less light fall off at 2.8. I went with an Elmarit instead. I would probably go with the Biogon 28 ZM given the choice now but that wasnt an option at the time. Shots I have seen from the G biogon 28 are extremely sharp with high contrast without the fall off of the Summicron. I never thought there would be a Summicron I didnt like but unfortnately the Summicron 28 is one.
back alley
IMAGES
Captain said:
how much are you asking?
joe
aizan
Veteran
i'd go with the biogon or, if you can find one, the 28mm m-hexanon.
nico
Well-known
Captain said:
If you want to talk about it you can send me a pm and, just because i'm lazy too (never posted my desire in wtb thread), we can slowly discuss about it 😉
Bye.
Nico
nico
Well-known
Sorry joe,
I didnt read you asked the price before...
I didnt read you asked the price before...
Dougg
Seasoned Member
Hi-- It seems there's a simple answer, that as far as I can tell Neopan 400CN is identical to Ilford XP2 Super. Indeed it may well be that Fuji sources their chromogenic stock from Ilford...LeicaLux said:
Captain
Well-known
I havent fixed a price yet, what do you think is fair?
Dougg
Seasoned Member
Didier, I faced the same question, and I'd say we all have to come to our own balance of comfort. I at first diverted off to the lovely little 28mm Skopar as a move up from the 25 to RF coupling, visible framelines, and a tad more speed. But that ultimately wasn't fully satisfactory for the indoor work I wanted to do, and I should have known it, as even then I'd been eyeing the Summicron covetously... but I felt it out of reach financially.Didier said:
As the Pentax 28 shots above indicate, I used this f/2 lens to test how important f/2 really was, and became convinced. The 28 Ultron was just too big, going by the specs and comments from owners about its visibility in the viewfinder. The Summicron was IT; really the only satisfactory choice, fast AND small and of course with exquisite qualities. I lucked onto a retail seller with new-old-stock at the old-stock price and jumped on it.
Since then the dimensions of the Ultron and Summicron have come into question, that possibly they're not so different in size... The lenses need to be measured the same way, from mounting flange to filter ring at infinity focus, and it may be the Ultron length I saw in the spec was over-all. Something to check up on, anyway.
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