Silberra? New analog start-up.

[sepiareverb]

This came to me out of the blue.


Silbera, a new line of films, papers and chemistry?

Their Indegogo Site

They are starting out with some films tweaked from Agfa Survellience recipes, three ISOs. Not seeing anything about the papers yet, but some chemistry is on their site.

Some more info here.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

17 developers and at least 13 different films that I see on cursory look. If doing vaporware, go big, or go home©.

I know I am perhaps being overly negative, but it seems at first glance to be a bit fanciful, in a world where Kodak can't even source 120 backing paper that works.
This afternoon I am starting an Indiegogo page myself. First project, Saturn Five rocket.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Yes, I read about it on rangefinder.ru.
Something like one film is somehow available, more are in testing.

 

[Oren Grad]

They are starting out with some films tweaked from Agfa Survellience recipes...

And from the description in the interview...

ORTA, our orthochromatic film is being produced in partnership with a partner that specialises in producing slow, very high resolution films and material for the holographic industry. They have been around since 1930 and also still produce glass plates, technical copying film....

...the manufacturer for the planned ortho film must be Slavich.

 

[michaelwj]

This afternoon I am starting an Indiegogo page myself. First project, Saturn Five rocket.

Wicked! I can't wait to see the prototype!

 

[HHPhoto]

Hi,

all the information on the site so far indicates that it is just another re-packaging business.
Using already existing Agfa (Belgium), Slavich and / or Tasma film stocks.
Do we really need the same films again and again in different boxes?
I don't think so.

Cheers, Jan

 

[sepiareverb]

Well, seems like they have several Ortho films in beta, and the Pan films they say are:

"derived from Agfa surveillance film."

From their Indegogo:

"Now we have 3 versions of Silberra PAN films (ISO160, ISO100 and ISO50) plus limited edition of Silberra PAN200 and Silberra Ultima200 (ISO200), which are black&white negative panchromatic films based on modified Agfa emulsions. We're ready to offer those in 35mm format, and we're working hard to start the production of 120 type. This film is 100% ready except packaging."

The Ortho films are:

"We have Silberra ORTA series, which is at beta-test phase now: black&white negative orthochromatic film based on totally new emulsions, and it will be available in 35mm format, 120 type and sheet films starting from 4"x5" and up to 8"x10". This film is 85% ready: we need to modify the coating machine to make it up to 100%."

They mention a different company other than Slavich as their partner for coating:

"To tell the truth, that film manufacturing story started at February 2017. That was the month we visited Micron, one of the eldest labs here in Russia, with more than 80 years of experience in synthesis and coating of emulsions. They are not playing at mass market, but they do coat some holographic and copy films for various companies, and they have all the technology for coating orthochromatic, isochromatic and panchromatic films. Moreover, they have coating machine. Not the most sophisticated one, but still functioning. That’s why we decided to try engineering orthochromatic emulsion for still photography at Micron lab – when you have skilled professionals and coating machine, you have a good start.



First coatings of ORTA were real problematic: emulsion was going off the substrate, as ISO80 sensitivity gives new qualities to the emulsion (e.g. viscosity is completely different) so Micron had to find right adhesive and hardening component dilution to provide both nice emulsion quality and good adhesive properties. Now that problem is solved, and you can see some ORTA80 and ORTA50 shots on our IG account."

I would love a faster Ortho film.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

They are pretty far off their goal. Thinking perhaps I should pony up some support, regardless of my initial (or continued, for that matter) skepticism. Instead of just talking about film, and keeping my hands in my pockets.

 

[aizan]

i'm surprised people aren't hyping the orthochromatic films, seeing how in vogue the 19th century aesthetic is these days. landscape photographers should be clamoring for the ORTA films. i think i'll be getting some right now...😀

 

[kumotaki]

So. New emulsions, not the usual re-packaging. Good to hear.

Still, the market is full of low ISO b/w films. Doesn't mean that a new brand coming around isn't something cool, but I'd be way happier to hear about a new fast film. Neopan 1600 is dearly missed. Why not to aim at doing something that does not exist anymore? In the 100-200 ISO range, I already have my dev routine dialled in and my fridge full of film and chemicals. I don't really see myself starting all over again.

Is it that harder to produce a fast film? I asked elsewhere in the past and never got an answer.

 

[Freakscene]

Is it that harder to produce a fast film? I asked elsewhere in the past and never got an answer.

Every aspect of emulsion design and formulation and film manufacturing gets logarithmically harder with each stop increase in speed. Buy Delta 3200, these small companies are extremely unlikely to ever produce a usable film with an ISO rating over 400.

Marty

 

[aizan]

but I'd be way happier to hear about a new fast film. Neopan 1600 is dearly missed. Why not to aim at doing something that does not exist anymore?

YES. fuji needs to bring back neopan 1600. delta 3200 is really good, but i still want that neopan flavor.

if you get bored of your slow speed films, the new orthochromatic films will spice things up.

 

[HHPhoto]

So. New emulsions, not the usual re-packaging. Good to hear.

No! You have to differentiate.
We indeed have again the usual re-packaging and partly the usual marketing lies for stupid, marketing brain-washed film-hipsters.

Their Pan film offerings are just re-packed Agfa (Belgium) Aviphot films. With misleading marketing blah-blah in their original indiegogo description, because they speak of "modified" emulsion, which is simply a lie. You cannot tweak an emulsion after coating.
And you can only buy the film at Agfa in the original condition.

Their second misleading marketing nonsense is here in the last sentence (quoted from their "Update 3"):
"Besides, by lucky coincidence, we found an option to get nice panchromatic which was derived from Agfa surveillance film. Engineering such an emulsion and manufacturing that film on our own was too much for us, it costs even more than we’re trying to raise at Indiegogo. But we found the company here in Russia which is buying lots of special film in bulk for their own needs and we managed to have subcontract with them (sorry, folks, NDA prevents more details here). Such a move provided us good film at very reasonable price. That’s how Silberra PAN film was born. With all the inherited qualities of original surveillance film it gives you very nice tonal range and provides high resolution image, with lower contrast and wider dynamic range when compared to the ancestor. We fell in love with that stock and decided that we must make it available for mass market."

What a bull****!
These films are already available on the mass market for about a decade!!
By Maco/Rollei-Film.
Its exactly the same stuff as Rollei Retro 80S, RPX 25, Superpan 200, Retro 400S, Infrared.

So again, like is has been the case with JCH Street Pan, photographers are considered to be stupid and dishonest marketing is done.
Sorry, but that is counterproductive to the market.
We really don't need all this permanent re-packing of the same films, then often even offered at higher (even extremely high) prices.

Cheers, Jan

 

[sepiareverb]

If that is the case, and it may be so, or may not be, (as JCH has apparently recoated an old emulsion whether one chooses to believe that or not) if it helps them to produce the Ortho films then I’m in. Their aim is to produce new films.

 

[kumotaki]

Ok. New emulsion? Re-packaging? I didn't really take the time to look at it in detail and I don't really care. I have everything I need in the 100-200 ISO range, which amounts to Silvermax and nothing else. I am certainly not bored by it.

Yes, Delta 3200 is still around, but this is one ultra high speed film left, which is not much. I am not sure why I always get the "just use Delta 3200" answer whenever I say that Neopan is missed, but that's what we all do anyway since there is no choice. Still, Neopan could be souped in a greater variety of developers with better results than Delta, IMHO. Sad that something in this vein cannot be easily reproduced.

Now, I also don't really understand the ortho hype, but I admit that I never really had a taste for it. What will the new option offer that Rollei Ortho doesn't?

Anyway, the Silberra packaging looks great in a retro-cool sort of way. Maybe this will bring more hipters to shoot film. This is a good thing, is it not?

 

[Pioneer]

Every aspect of emulsion design and formulation and film manufacturing gets logarithmically harder with each stop increase in speed. Buy Delta 3200, these small companies are extremely unlikely to ever produce a usable film with an ISO rating over 400.

Marty

Excellent point Marty. I am getting a bit low on my Delta Pro 3200 so I need to get another order together. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[DanskDynamit]

No! You have to differentiate.
We indeed have again the usual re-packaging and partly the usual marketing lies for stupid, marketing brain-washed film-hipsters.

Their Pan film offerings are just re-packed Agfa (Belgium) Aviphot films. With misleading marketing blah-blah in their original indiegogo description, because they speak of "modified" emulsion, which is simply a lie. You cannot tweak an emulsion after coating.
And you can only buy the film at Agfa in the original condition.

Their second misleading marketing nonsense is here in the last sentence (quoted from their "Update 3"):
"Besides, by lucky coincidence, we found an option to get nice panchromatic which was derived from Agfa surveillance film. Engineering such an emulsion and manufacturing that film on our own was too much for us, it costs even more than we’re trying to raise at Indiegogo. But we found the company here in Russia which is buying lots of special film in bulk for their own needs and we managed to have subcontract with them (sorry, folks, NDA prevents more details here). Such a move provided us good film at very reasonable price. That’s how Silberra PAN film was born. With all the inherited qualities of original surveillance film it gives you very nice tonal range and provides high resolution image, with lower contrast and wider dynamic range when compared to the ancestor. We fell in love with that stock and decided that we must make it available for mass market."

What a bull****!
These films are already available on the mass market for about a decade!!
By Maco/Rollei-Film.
Its exactly the same stuff as Rollei Retro 80S, RPX 25, Superpan 200, Retro 400S, Infrared.

So again, like is has been the case with JCH Street Pan, photographers are considered to be stupid and dishonest marketing is done.
Sorry, but that is counterproductive to the market.
We really don't need all this permanent re-packing of the same films, then often even offered at higher (even extremely high) prices.

Cheers, Jan

word.

10 characters.:bang:

 

[aizan]

has anyone created a database and a diagram showing all of the relabeled films there are on the market? i think people would find that very interesting, and it would help people understand how the distribution and marketing of film works. i bet people would get upset less often, too.

one thing i really appreciate is how transparent they are about what they're doing.

 

[sepiareverb]

... I have everything I need in the 100-200 ISO range, which amounts to Silvermax and nothing else. I am certainly not bored by it...

Some (not me) might consider this part of the problem... 🙄

Now, I also don't really understand the ortho hype, but I admit that I never really had a taste for it. What will the new option offer that Rollei Ortho doesn't?

Faster emulsions. Would certainly allow me to shoot on a wider variety of days, which I am quite looking forward to.

Anyway, the Silberra packaging looks great in a retro-cool sort of way. Maybe this will bring more hipters to shoot film. This is a good thing, is it not?

Not if they are only shooting this film to bash Fuji... :angel:

 

[kumotaki]

Some (not me) might consider this part of the problem... 🙄

Not sure I get the innuendo, but anyway. At least it is not a problem with me.

Faster emulsions. Would certainly allow me to shoot on a wider variety of days, which I am quite looking forward to.

From 25 to 80, it is not really that faster... but yeah, that's a plus. On the matter, are ortho films inherently slow films? Is there a correlation between speed and color sensitivity?

Not if they are only shooting this film to bash Fuji... :angel:

I am pretty sure Fuji won't mind.