Silly safe than sorry question

[Steve_Pfost]

I mixed a batch of EcoPro (Xtol) today. I came up short when adding the mixture to my bottles. Maybe like 100ml/200ml at best, give or take, it wasn't really much. I'm not sure if I mis-measured or if I spilt some down the funnel when pouring and didn't notice. I'm not sure what I was thinking and I poured a little water in my gallon jug after adding the mixture to compensate and top it off. After the fact I questioned if that was a good idea. Would adding a smidge of water to an already mixed batch affect anything?

My thinking, after a slight panic that I messed something up, was that it is going to be OK and that I should just not worry about it.

I figured, as always, let me see what the film developing pro's say.

 

[xayraa33]

I would not be too worried about it.
Mixed developers from powders vary in efficacy over time anyways whether they are Xtol or D-76 and even Microdol X does this.

Using dilutions of 1:1 or 1:3 like when using D-76 for example.. exacerbates this even more via proportions of developer to water, it is not always 100% correctly done every time we develop film, although we try to aim for accuracy and temperature constancy during the development of the film.

If you are overly concerned you can always shoot a trial roll of film and develop it normally in that mixed batch of Xtol and see if you need to compensate or not to get the density and contrast you normally get in the developed film.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I mixed a batch of EcoPro (Xtol) today. I came up short when adding the mixture to my bottles. Maybe like 100ml/200ml at best, give or take, it wasn't really much. I'm not sure if I mis-measured or if I spilt some down the funnel when pouring and didn't notice. I'm not sure what I was thinking and I poured a little water in my gallon jug after adding the mixture to compensate and top it off. After the fact I questioned if that was a good idea. Would adding a smidge of water to an already mixed batch affect anything?

My thinking, after a slight panic that I messed something up, was that it is going to be OK and that I should just not worry about it.

I figured, as always, let me see what the film developing pro's say.

Assuming you had measured everything correctly when mixing the developer, adding more water to top up some lost to spillage will weaken the developer. I'm too much of a perfectionist, I would pour it out and mix a new batch. My photos are more valuable than the $6 or whatever a new pack of developer costs.

 

[Moto-Uno]

Clearly " Chris " has not a drop of Scottish blood in him 🙂 . Take some pics , and test to your hearts content ! Many of us ( I think) are not making a living
from this "hobby" ! If you have no happiness after a few rolls , then chuck it !
Peter

 

[Rob-F]

I dunno. With the price of film being what it is, wasting a roll to test developer is maybe not smart. I think Chris is right. Pitch it.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Clearly " Chris " has not a drop of Scottish blood in him 🙂 . Take some pics , and test to your hearts content ! Many of us ( I think) are not making a living
from this "hobby" ! If you have no happiness after a few rolls , then chuck it !
Peter

My ancestors came to the US from Scotland and Spain. Yeah, I know, Scots are supposed to be tightfisted with money; but I think trying to save $6 on developer is foolish when film is $8 a roll. 😀

 

[Freakscene]

Can you clarify what you did? A pack of EcoPro makes 5L of developer. Did you, after mixing, put it into several bottles, and the last one came up short? Or do you have a 5L bottle and it came up a couple of hundred mL short?

If you are using multiple bottles it is not much to toss just that bottle. If you added 2-300mL to 5L, probably not much of a hassle either.

But for future reference, mix it how the directions say, and if you lose some, fill the bottle with glass marbles to minimise the air space and put the lid on.

Marty

 

[valdas]

I dunno. With the price of film being what it is, wasting a roll to test developer is maybe not smart. I think Chris is right. Pitch it.

It does not have to be a full roll. A short strip can serve the purpose.

From what it is described I hardly believe it can be an issue. But sure, you never know untill you try.

 

[xayraa33]

It does not have to be a full roll. A short strip can serve the purpose.

From what it is described I hardly believe it can be an issue. But sure, you never know untill you try.

That is exactly what I meant..you can use part of a roll and cut it in a darkroom or change bag and if you are like me and bulk roll film just wind a 10 or 12 exposure cassette of your commonly used B&W film.

I also frequently use this method to test new film developers or new dilutions or new films that I never used before like the Mitsubishi branded EFKE made film I been gifted for example.

It depends on were you live too...out in the boonies of snowy winter Canada it is not always feasible to pop in your big city camera store for some new Xtol or expect extra busy National Mail or DHS or UPS to deliver it to you in a jiffy in winter when the stuff is bought online.

Besides the pittance money savings and less waste water polluting when using less benign full strength dumped developers than mostly harmless Xtol.. there is a good chance you got usable negatives on your short test strip of film and we all can use more pictures of our pet cat ;-)

 

[KenR]

Extended time

Extended time

When we dilute a developed from stock, we extend the development time. For example, the recommended time for TMY400in HC110 is 5.5 minutes in dilution B (1:31). I generally use dilution H (1:63) and so double the time to 11 minutes. I think that it’s likely that you can salvage the stuff you made merely by extending the development time. It will call for a bit of experimenting, but that is what I enjoy about film processing.

 

[Godfrey]

I wouldn't worry about it. The cost of a roll of film or two for testing (which doesn't mean you can't make nice photos while testing), and the time to process it is pretty inconsequential. I run tests all the time, both on film and with digital capture, just to understand how whatever equipment, film, and processing/rendering methodology does what. The cost is the price of education and understanding.

Frankly, I find the subtle differences between various film types and versions, subtleties of different developers and different dilutions/temperatures/processing workflows, doesn't matter as much as it once did, to me anyway. I know if I need to be ultra-picky about some aspect of my imaging needs that I should just switch to a digital camera where I have far, far more specific control of the medium and the resulting image. A good bit of my enjoyment of film is specifically for its inconsistency, defects, and rendering oddities. I've come to ignore manufacturer data sheets, the fine control of chemistry, and the subtle differences that develop in processing: I shoot at what I think is about the right ISO setting and process everything the same way (with only one exception) ... Then I hunt through my exposures with an eye to "what was I thinking of when I made the shot and which of these did the film/camera/processing conspire to give me something that either matches or that I like anyway..." Fractional differences in the developer strength mean very little in the big picture. 🙂

The other part of this new-me-photographer is that "I just don't care any more whether some specific exposure is going to work." I've come to the realization that there are an infinite number of photo opportunities out there, many of which I'll have the opportunity to try over and over again while most of which I'll never get the time or moment to attempt in the first place, and any specific attempt at some point in time is just another attempt that might or might not make it. I don't mean to say that I've dropped into being a haphazard photographer, only that I no longer presume that because I put the time in to see, focus, set exposure as properly as I can, etc ... that because of all that, I expect to be rewarded with a perfect photograph. It's no longer important to me... I enjoy doing the whole gambit, putting my all into it, whether it succeeds or not. And celebrate the results when it does.

Obviously, I'm no longer shooting on assignment for people who DO care, or attempting to make a living from it. It's a different mindset...

😀

G

 

[Steve_Pfost]

Thanks for all your responses. This is my only outlet for chemistry advice. When I shot film way back in college I never had to worry about mixing my own stuff. Everything was always pre-mixed, every chemical was of perfect standard. So this is always a learning experience for me. I am trying to perfect this craft.

So to clarify I usually mix the batch, I fill up a gallon jug and a 1000 ml bottle. When I fishing pouring into the gallon jug there was more air space than I usually have. Of course there is always some spillage but I didn't see any spill this time, or so I thought. I figured maybe I mis-measured the initial water amount. So I added water. Not much, like I said, maybe 100ml, could have been less could have been a bit more. My initial thought was, because I didn't see any spill, that if I didn't add enough water during mixing, if I did make that slight mistake and not notice it, that developer would be slightly too concentrated.

My feelings are am I being too over worried? If this happened in the 1000ml jug I'd just toss it. But 1 gallon of developer that could be ok down the drain seems like it may be a waste.

I develop my HP5+ 1:1 to begin with. so like xayraa33 said my measurements can sometimes be slightly off when it comes to mixing water to concentrate.

I have two rolls that are of nothing special, I can roll them through the tank and see what happens I guess.

 

[Tim Gray]

I'd probably test a roll and if it comes out fine, just go with it. You diluted your gallon of developer by 100 ml, which works out to be only a few percent. And we know your dev works just fine (time compensated) at dilutions other than full strength. At the same time, if you want to mix up a new batch, that works too.

Now that it is split into 1 gallon and 1 liter, the 1 liter will be a bit stronger than the topped off liter.

Question not knowing your containers - is it possible that you put 1.1 liter into the '1 liter' jug?

 

[xayraa33]

Thanks for all your responses. This is my only outlet for chemistry advice. When I shot film way back in college aI never had to worry about mixing my own stuff. Everything was always pre-mixed, every chemical was of perfect standard. So this is always a learning experience for me.

So to clarify I usually mix the batch, I fill up a gallon jug and a 1000 ml bottle. When I fishing pouring into the gallon jug there was more air space than I usually have. Of course there is always some spillage but I didn't see any spill this time, or so I thought. I figured maybe I mis-measured the initial water amount. So I added water. Not much, like I said, maybe 100ml, could have been less could have been a bit more. My initial thought was, because I didn't see any spill, that if I didn't add enough water during mixing, if I did make that slight mistake and not notice it, that developer would be slightly too concentrated.

My feelings are am I being too over worried? If this happened in the 1000ml jug I'd just toss it. But 1 gallon of developer that could be ok down the drain seems like it may be a waste.

I develop my HP5+ 1:1 to begin with. so like Xray said my measurements can sometimes be slightly off when it comes to mixing water to concentrate.

I have two rolls that are of nothing special, I can roll them through the tank and see what happens I guess.

You got to accept the fact that there are a lot of tiny variances in the long chain links that make the analogue photo process.

For example: how accurate are your shutter speeds on your 60 year old Leica M2 or your 1935 Leica III or your 1965 Zorki 4 ? What is the ambient temperature? A cloth focal plane shutter will work slightly differently at -16 deg C than at 32 deg C

Even if they been all pro serviced recently 1/250 th of a second could be 1/210 th of a second on your shutter or 1/179 th of a second when your Leica III shutter dial is set at 1/200 th of a second.

Then there are variances with your light meter or your sunny f16 exposure guessing. Is your J-8 lens really f5.6 when it set at f5.6 on that clickless aperture dial or is it closer to an unmarked f6.3 or f4.5?

Then there is the variances in film speed....is that Fomapan 400 really 400 iso or closer to 320 or even 200 iso?...is that 15 yr old HP -5 stored film from the freezer really still 400 iso and no fog has invaded that film while in the freezer?

Then we get to the variances with developers, is the D-76 made now by a contractor in New Jersey or Shanghai China instead of Kodak in Rochester the same 100% accurate formula as it was in 1985?

And how we mix powder developer and are our cup and weight scales 100% accurate and what about water hardness or softness and how old are these pre packaged developers anyways in the unopened packs or envelopes... and how we stored them and at what temperature and how accurately did we dilute them and how much or little did we agitate the tank during development and did we keep the temperature consistent at 20 deg C and did we clear out the developer fast enough when the allotted developing time has passed.

You can see where I am going with this...there is so much leeway and wide tolerance gaps in the analogue film process that it is amazing that is works as well as it does.

And I have not even touched on personal preferences on what makes a great negative for you to old school enlarger print or scan...each of us has their own take on that and what works for us in negative density and contrast and what type of enlarger we use or type of enlarging paper and and what grade and how old it is and how it has been stored and how we mix our Dektol photo paper developer and at what temperature is it in the developing tray and when does it get too exhausted for good contrast .... etc. etc. etc.

 

[Mackinaw]

I screwed up my measuring a few years back with Xtol. I used the miss-mixed developer as is and got negatives I couldn't tell apart from properly mixed Xtol. Your batch should be perfectly fine.

Jim B.

 

[benlees]

You've increased dilution. Adding 100ml to 3785ml (assuming US gallon) isn't going to change much. I'm going to assume you've used this combo before: adjust you development time slightly longer. As stated above, there is a lot of latitude in b&w so minor errors can be dealt with.

 

[Ronald M]

Bring all bottle (s) of stock to proper level. Take 6 pic and develop 12” as a test.

Depending on how much you added, you might have diluted developer which will not last.