Bill Pierce
Well-known
It’s been around a bit, December, 2006, but Nash Editions: Photography and the Art of Digital Printing is still very much the book that positions digital printing’s place in photography. In it Richard Benson says, “only by 2000 did most of us realize that silver photography was effectively dead - still being practiced, but fatally wounded...
Benson is recognized as a wonderful photographer and teacher, but he’s also in contention for being the best printer in the business, the best silver printer, the best inkjet printer and the best to oversee a conventional printing press. He’s the man behind the Museum of Modern Art’s show on photographic printing from the earliest techniques ‘til today. He’s a hero to many of us.
For him to say silver photography was effectively dead a decade ago is really going to annoy a lot of folks on these forums. I can only say that, for me, the small and medium format digital cameras that compete with the 35mm and roll film cameras that I used to use, in general, clearly outperform their film counterparts.
After the screams of outrage subside - two questions...
What were your experiences if you moved from film to digital outside of the obvious pain of learning a new craft and buying new gear?
Was it worth it?
Benson is recognized as a wonderful photographer and teacher, but he’s also in contention for being the best printer in the business, the best silver printer, the best inkjet printer and the best to oversee a conventional printing press. He’s the man behind the Museum of Modern Art’s show on photographic printing from the earliest techniques ‘til today. He’s a hero to many of us.
For him to say silver photography was effectively dead a decade ago is really going to annoy a lot of folks on these forums. I can only say that, for me, the small and medium format digital cameras that compete with the 35mm and roll film cameras that I used to use, in general, clearly outperform their film counterparts.
After the screams of outrage subside - two questions...
What were your experiences if you moved from film to digital outside of the obvious pain of learning a new craft and buying new gear?
Was it worth it?
Austerby
Well-known
I'm entering Digital 2.0 at the moment - pre-digital I used a Nikon FE all the time, then bought a D70 but then went back to film with my Leicas and now I'm back to digital with a newly acquired secondhand M8.
The first time with digital was great: I loved the novelty and experience, but that soon wore off and I relished the return to film and mechanical, rather than electronic cameras.
This second serious attempt at digital hasn't quite convinced me yet and I tend to think I'll make use of the freedom of digital with the M8 to make me a better user of my M3 and other film cameras.
I enjoy not using a computer for everything I do and the analogue workflow with a mechanical camera brings me satisfaction that is not the same as what I get from digital.
The person who said silver is dead is not speaking for everyone.
The first time with digital was great: I loved the novelty and experience, but that soon wore off and I relished the return to film and mechanical, rather than electronic cameras.
This second serious attempt at digital hasn't quite convinced me yet and I tend to think I'll make use of the freedom of digital with the M8 to make me a better user of my M3 and other film cameras.
I enjoy not using a computer for everything I do and the analogue workflow with a mechanical camera brings me satisfaction that is not the same as what I get from digital.
The person who said silver is dead is not speaking for everyone.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
No outrage from me. A good photo print is a good photo print without regard to the underlying technology used in capture or printing. And I think highly of both Richard Benson and Graham Nash.
I came back from a 20 year hiatus and resumed shooting and processing b&w film but printing digitally. No big deal other than learning how to output digitally. I like to think I am somewhat competent in digital printing after ten years but still learning. But I was still learning wet printing after fifteen years at an enlarger. Hell, I have been shooting seriously for thirty years and still learning.
I have gotten where the digital output is faster than an enlarger and looks as good if not better to my eye. That is just progress.
Someday I may make the same step with digital capture. It will not involve any emotional trauma.
I am convinced the quality of photos relates to the photographer's eye, heart and soul. So the technology involved will always make no difference to me. No more than the old Nikon vs. Canon or SLR vs. RF debates. Great internet discussion fodder for some, just not me.
I came back from a 20 year hiatus and resumed shooting and processing b&w film but printing digitally. No big deal other than learning how to output digitally. I like to think I am somewhat competent in digital printing after ten years but still learning. But I was still learning wet printing after fifteen years at an enlarger. Hell, I have been shooting seriously for thirty years and still learning.
I have gotten where the digital output is faster than an enlarger and looks as good if not better to my eye. That is just progress.
Someday I may make the same step with digital capture. It will not involve any emotional trauma.
I am convinced the quality of photos relates to the photographer's eye, heart and soul. So the technology involved will always make no difference to me. No more than the old Nikon vs. Canon or SLR vs. RF debates. Great internet discussion fodder for some, just not me.
NickTrop
Veteran
Mr. Pierce, are you attempting to be a provocateur?
FrankS
Registered User
Silver is better. (Tribute to Al.)
hans voralberg
Veteran
The reality is most of use can't spend 30 grand on digital back, so digital MF is out of the question. Digital 35mm, yeah, I like it for work, but just not as fun as pulling film out of the reel.
oftheherd
Veteran
My first thought when I saw the title as well.
As to Mr. Pierce's question, I cannot really comment. I only use a digital P&S. I don't dislike it, I think I just have too much invested in film cameras to want to take up digital seriously. Plus I sort of like the process.
As to quality, I have always suspected that digital cannot yet match film as to quality of large prints. A lot of people I respect disagree with that and I don't have experience with digital myself to prove them wrong.
Also, Bob Michaels made a good point. And I have seen some really awfully good b/w digital prints.
But dead, I don't think so for a while. Obviously most pros are going digital, so maybe it is dead in that respect, but there are going to be a lot of people continuing to use film for some time. I expect to be one of them.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Tell the wonderful photographer and teacher who is in contention to be the best printer in the business that I thank him for his prognosis.
Tonight I will head to the darkroom and print a roll or two of 6x9 B/W negs with my Durst in his honor.
Tonight I will head to the darkroom and print a roll or two of 6x9 B/W negs with my Durst in his honor.
monochromejrnl
Well-known
Optical enlargements from film on to fibre-base paper is still the most cost effective and accessible way to create archival prints. If archival quality is not important (ie. commercial applications) then digital clearly rules. I suspect there will continue to be a place for silver prints in the fine art photography world (however small and shrinking it may be).
le vrai rdu
Well-known
Silver is much more funny 
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Silver is effectively dead, digital won. Just like SLR's won. Yeah, there are a bunch of us who still like to play with old cameras, but it's an ever shrinking bunch of contrarians if film sales are any indication.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Silver is much more funny
After going digital nearly a decade ago, I felt sad because pleasure was walking away from me...
So I walked away from digital, and came back to feel the mystery again: creating inside a dream, and not knowing for some time what I got.
The very few times I've used digital for the last couple of years, I've imposed myself a precise discipline in order to feel pleasure: now I never look at images on camera, and I don't process them too soon...
I guess it's not about quality or archival printing (film is better anyway) but about pleasure and mystery, dreaming and creation.
bigeye
Well-known
It sounds like moving to digital is like moving to Queens; both happened at about the same time to MoMA.
le vrai rdu
Well-known
I agree with that, I am always surprised to see digital people shooting and spendint 1 minute looking at the screen :bang: i can't undestand that
back alley
IMAGES
silver is dead for me, no question.
i like electronics, computers and not standing in a smelly darkroom for hours, after set up and before clean up.
i like making images and i love rangefinders and my 2 rd1s do that for me. it still is fun, no different from my film days.
and so what if i look at a screen to check exposures and composition, beats developing a roll of film only to find out i messed up.
i have no film vs digital issues as i have gone over to the digital side with no compunction what so ever.
i like electronics, computers and not standing in a smelly darkroom for hours, after set up and before clean up.
i like making images and i love rangefinders and my 2 rd1s do that for me. it still is fun, no different from my film days.
and so what if i look at a screen to check exposures and composition, beats developing a roll of film only to find out i messed up.
i have no film vs digital issues as i have gone over to the digital side with no compunction what so ever.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Bill, good question. But you should have know people were going to ignore the actual question.
You could have just saved the keystrokes and set up a poll asking "which is better, film or digital?"
marcr1230
Well-known
I agree with Picket. As a mainstream business, Silver is dead. As a recreation and as an art form, it is far from dead.
Digital for me, a simple hobbyist, is a pleasure, I can go to an event, shoot a couple hundred photos, select the best, email or post them, perhaps make a slide show or photo book. All in minutes.
I can review/chimp my images to my heart's content, learning quickly or being able to re-shoot if something is not right.
Silver is peace, therapy, a return to the well known and well worn. the magic of an image popping out and completing itself in the developer is unmatched by digital.
Silver is random and capricious, did I do everything correctly, load film, focus, exposure, development, printing. You often don't know till long after the shutter snaps, and yet the joy of seeing and handling the final well crafted image is perhaps greater than with digital, because it is harder.
For me, silver is like baking your own bread, digital is like buying at a gourmet bakery. Both taste great, and you can learn from each
Digital for me, a simple hobbyist, is a pleasure, I can go to an event, shoot a couple hundred photos, select the best, email or post them, perhaps make a slide show or photo book. All in minutes.
I can review/chimp my images to my heart's content, learning quickly or being able to re-shoot if something is not right.
Silver is peace, therapy, a return to the well known and well worn. the magic of an image popping out and completing itself in the developer is unmatched by digital.
Silver is random and capricious, did I do everything correctly, load film, focus, exposure, development, printing. You often don't know till long after the shutter snaps, and yet the joy of seeing and handling the final well crafted image is perhaps greater than with digital, because it is harder.
For me, silver is like baking your own bread, digital is like buying at a gourmet bakery. Both taste great, and you can learn from each
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
With all respect, Bob, your last comment adds nothing to the original question.
It also denies some members' serious answers directly related to what Mr. Pierce asked.
Steve M.
Veteran
Well, as Stanley Kowalski said to Blanche, "Ha, Ha! Do you hear me... Ha, Ha!" And then some.
And it hasn't been worth it because I CAN'T move from film to digital. You know. Tonal range, exposure latitude, darkroom wet prints vs inkjet, digital blown highlights. Come on.
And it hasn't been worth it because I CAN'T move from film to digital. You know. Tonal range, exposure latitude, darkroom wet prints vs inkjet, digital blown highlights. Come on.
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Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Bill, do you enjoy shooting film these days? Do you do it sometimes?
I feel saying film is dead is like saying Almodovar's movies are dead because big brother tv shows are a faster way to generate money.
Even great artists during the 19th century believed oil painting was fatally wounded after photography.
The answer to your question is absolutely clear: no.
It's understandable some workers must go digital even if they prefer film...
Do you ever shoot film for pleasure? Do you ever do it at work?
Cheers,
Juan
I feel saying film is dead is like saying Almodovar's movies are dead because big brother tv shows are a faster way to generate money.
Even great artists during the 19th century believed oil painting was fatally wounded after photography.
The answer to your question is absolutely clear: no.
It's understandable some workers must go digital even if they prefer film...
Do you ever shoot film for pleasure? Do you ever do it at work?
Cheers,
Juan