mooge
Well-known
Hey guys,
so I was given a Sinar Vario back today, included in a pile of random accessories once used in a lab. Quick check of the internets shows that it's actually worth some money... AND I don't have a camera to go with it.
How much would a basic but decent camera kit cost to go with the back? With a wide-ish lens? I'd get a LF camera if it wasn't too expensive... but then I don't have a big enough enlarger for 6x12 and stuff. or could I hack together an LF camera from a back standard and some bits of wood? I have a few 6x9 lenses kicking around under my desk... maybe this would make for a good project...
Or should I just sell it? it's going to be a rather pricy piece of junk for the next two months, at least. And I might never get into large format. and I have too many cameras.
what do you guys think?
I'm leaning towards making a camera to go with it, actually... this thing is just a little to cool just to sell like that.
what are your thoughts?
edit: what I should be asking is what do the back and viewfinder mask attach to? Graflok? or something proprietary? I don't know anything about large format... but a quick look on the local classifieds shows that a LF camera without lens could be as low as $300...
so I was given a Sinar Vario back today, included in a pile of random accessories once used in a lab. Quick check of the internets shows that it's actually worth some money... AND I don't have a camera to go with it.
How much would a basic but decent camera kit cost to go with the back? With a wide-ish lens? I'd get a LF camera if it wasn't too expensive... but then I don't have a big enough enlarger for 6x12 and stuff. or could I hack together an LF camera from a back standard and some bits of wood? I have a few 6x9 lenses kicking around under my desk... maybe this would make for a good project...
Or should I just sell it? it's going to be a rather pricy piece of junk for the next two months, at least. And I might never get into large format. and I have too many cameras.
what do you guys think?
I'm leaning towards making a camera to go with it, actually... this thing is just a little to cool just to sell like that.
what are your thoughts?
edit: what I should be asking is what do the back and viewfinder mask attach to? Graflok? or something proprietary? I don't know anything about large format... but a quick look on the local classifieds shows that a LF camera without lens could be as low as $300...
Frank Petronio
Well-known
It's an upper end, heavier, high quality Sinar item and would work so much better with a real Sinar camera than any cobbled wooden camera.
Sinar Norma or F2 4x5 camera ~ $500
90mm Rodenstock Lens to make the most of it ~ $500
Heavier tripod, loupe, case, etc.
Of course you could use it in a $200 Crown Graphic with an old lens and getRdone but it's kind of slapdash. If you can't do it right then why not sell it, pass GO, and collect $200?
That mask snaps into the Sinar ground glass to preview the adjustable "Vario" roll film format. The back fits any Graflock 4x5 back but the tail end may conflict with the back sitting light tight on a non-Sinar camera. But you could always Dremel away ;-)
Sinar Norma or F2 4x5 camera ~ $500
90mm Rodenstock Lens to make the most of it ~ $500
Heavier tripod, loupe, case, etc.
Of course you could use it in a $200 Crown Graphic with an old lens and getRdone but it's kind of slapdash. If you can't do it right then why not sell it, pass GO, and collect $200?
That mask snaps into the Sinar ground glass to preview the adjustable "Vario" roll film format. The back fits any Graflock 4x5 back but the tail end may conflict with the back sitting light tight on a non-Sinar camera. But you could always Dremel away ;-)
mooge
Well-known
ugh, now I have a valid excuse to buy a LF camera... what the heck am I going to use it for?
well, alot of thinking and research before I sell it or buy a camera to go with it then...
well, alot of thinking and research before I sell it or buy a camera to go with it then...
Oren Grad
Well-known
I've owned a Vario, as well as the fixed 6x12 version known as the Panorama. It's pretty heavy as rollholders go - somewhere around 2 pounds IIRC. Many lightweight 4x5 field cameras are not especially rigid, and in particular have a fair amount of flex in the rear standard. The risk is that you focus on the GG and then when you insert the rollholder its weight loaded on a spongy rear standard is enough to move the back away from exact focus. Best to use it on a solid monorail such as a Sinar, as intended, or on one of the 4x5 field cameras with a more robust rear standard.
An advantage of the Vario and the other Sinar rollholders is that the film path before the exposure gate is about as flat as you can get - no tight kink in the film before it gets exposed, as you get with so many other rollholders. The corresponding disadvantage is that the loading process is fussy and a bit of a nuisance to do on the fly, involving a separate cassette and a very long path to thread, and it can be a challenge to keep the entire path dust-free.
The Vario used to be frightfully expensive, but prices for used ones have come way, way down - check eBay for closed sales to get a sense.
An advantage of the Vario and the other Sinar rollholders is that the film path before the exposure gate is about as flat as you can get - no tight kink in the film before it gets exposed, as you get with so many other rollholders. The corresponding disadvantage is that the loading process is fussy and a bit of a nuisance to do on the fly, involving a separate cassette and a very long path to thread, and it can be a challenge to keep the entire path dust-free.
The Vario used to be frightfully expensive, but prices for used ones have come way, way down - check eBay for closed sales to get a sense.
Jeicob
Amateur
Nokton48
Veteran
I would also recommend the Sinar Norma, much sturdier and solid than the more modern Sinar F's. Costs about $500. The camera used by Ezra Stoller, Ansel Adams, Richard Avedon, Julius Schulman, and Heidrich-Blessing. None finer. Add LF lens or lenses, sturdy heavy tripod and misc LF accessories.
I believe you can change formats in the middle of the roll, which is pretty darn cool.
I believe you can change formats in the middle of the roll, which is pretty darn cool.
Oren Grad
Well-known
You can with the Zoom and Zoom 2, not with the Vario.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Buy or make a camera. Sell a few of your self-inflected too many cameras to help fund. LF is a wonderful media. You might be very surprised at the qualities you get from a good scan of some LF negatives.
B2
B2
mooge
Well-known
So I took Frank's advice (sort of by accident... haha) and bought myself a pretty complete Sinar F2 kit for the amaaaazing price of $450. It was so cheap because a local college was selling off all of their LF loaner sets, but mine is in pretty good shape. I had to go through a couple before finding a good one though. Came with a lens (and two spare lens boards... aww yeah), bag bellows, extension rail, ridiculously heavy tripod, level, film holders, dark cloth, loupe... so I'm all set to go, pretty much.
My 'problem' now is that it came with a Sinar 210 mm lens, which is kind of long. So now I kinda want to get a wide lens for it. Like a Super Angulon 47mm.
so yeah, get a $300 film holder for free, end up spending alot of money.
story of my life
but this scheimpflug business is pretty coooool
My 'problem' now is that it came with a Sinar 210 mm lens, which is kind of long. So now I kinda want to get a wide lens for it. Like a Super Angulon 47mm.
so yeah, get a $300 film holder for free, end up spending alot of money.
story of my life
but this scheimpflug business is pretty coooool
mooge
Well-known
Fun fact: if you put a filter on the Sinaron S 210mm, the filter glass will touch the lens's front element before the filter is fully threaded in.
EdSawyer
Established
SA 47XL is hugely wide. Try something more like a 65 before you commit to a 47XL. 65 feels really wide on 4x5, and is hard enough to use by itself. 47XL is another level above that.
it's great to get into 4x5 but frankly that holder (sinar vario) is really a studio-only sort of thing (e.g. not great in the field - horseman backs are much better/lighter/easier/etc.), and I doubt it would fetch $300. But hey, now you have 4x5 so enjoy the fun! ;-)
-Ed
it's great to get into 4x5 but frankly that holder (sinar vario) is really a studio-only sort of thing (e.g. not great in the field - horseman backs are much better/lighter/easier/etc.), and I doubt it would fetch $300. But hey, now you have 4x5 so enjoy the fun! ;-)
-Ed
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
47mm is near unmanageable wide, a higher resolution substitute for the 14mm to your 35mm SLR - if you don't even have the latter, or if your clients never complained about the billboard size prints you made with it, you can presumably do without a 47mm. 60 or 75mm are more generally useful, and about one order of magnitude more affordable.
mooge
Well-known
'unmanageably wide' and 'hugely wide' would be apt descriptions for the 12mm heliar, which I have. It's ridiculous, which is part of the fun of it I guess...
... but in the meanwhile, I have a Tessar 105 f/3,5 I've stolen from a 2x3 Linhof which seems to cover 6x12. Stupid compur shutter doesn't want to work despite a good naptha soaking though.
whatever the Vario's market value is, I'd probably never have bought one so it's great that I was given one. And yes - it is a heavy bugger! the case I got was clearly not designed to accommodate it because if I put it in, there's pretty much no space for anything else; which is kind of a pain if I want to bring the 105 along (requires bag bellows). the case is kind of a joke...
looks like it's time for me to start another thread on 4x5...
thanks guys!
... but in the meanwhile, I have a Tessar 105 f/3,5 I've stolen from a 2x3 Linhof which seems to cover 6x12. Stupid compur shutter doesn't want to work despite a good naptha soaking though.
whatever the Vario's market value is, I'd probably never have bought one so it's great that I was given one. And yes - it is a heavy bugger! the case I got was clearly not designed to accommodate it because if I put it in, there's pretty much no space for anything else; which is kind of a pain if I want to bring the 105 along (requires bag bellows). the case is kind of a joke...
looks like it's time for me to start another thread on 4x5...
thanks guys!
Nokton48
Veteran
You can break the glass in a cheap $1 UV filter, and use that as a spacer ring. Assuming you can't scrounge up a thicker filter UV mount.