Size vs. Quality

Borghesia said:
The Olympus OM slr's are just as small as a Fed 1, and much better.
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A FED-2 and an OM-1n are all I shoot anymore. I have one in each hand right now.

Not even close. FED is far trimmer, and a FED-1 is smaller still. Measure them. It's so, so wrong to claim they're the same size.

As for quality... if you can shoot without a meter, they're equal. I'd call the FED better, if forced, because they malfunction far less often (mostly because there's less to go wrong I'm sure).
 
Borghesia said:
The Olympus OM slr's are just as small as a Fed 1, and much better.
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Yes, but won't fit in a back pocket unless the pocket is large and the lens is the 40 pancake.

In addition to Oly RFs such as the RC and RD, I can highly recommend the Konica C35. Within its limitations, it is brilliant.
 
As for FSUs, I've never had such luck with them, so I'd have to suggest an Oly RF or something of the sort. I recently traded off my 35RC and picked up another XA, which I really missed when I parted with my old one.
Nothing against FSU cameras but I wouldn't consider them reliable or a quality build. I've had a couple of FEDs and considered them more of a tinkering mechanism than anything.
Are they junk? Not all of them, I've heard stories of success.
Do they take good pics? I've seen some stunning pictures from FSU gear, and have also taken some I consider my favorites.

If you have interest in FSUs, get one, it's an experience. The FEDs are maybe the most respected, and I hear Fedka is a very good source (though my "gems" came straight from Ukraine)
 
wolves3012 said:
I can sympathise with your sentiments in some ways but I'm wondering why you have "a good many russian cameras" if they only take "marginal" pictures? I forget where the quote is from but didn't someone once say the simplest camera exceeded the capability of the best photographer (or something close to that)?

My experience is a little different from yours, perhaps. I've taken hundreds and hundreds of pictures with FSUs and, so far, I've had ONE frame that was spoiled due to "camera error" rather than "operator error".

I bought my first FSU a couple of years ago, on a whim, because I liked the look of it. I loaded a roll of slide film (a pretty severe test of shutter accuracy etc) and gave it a run. When the slides came back I was, frankly, amazed at how good they were. This is from someone who had, previously, laughed at my father's primitive-but-cheap Kiev, although I'd always acknowledged the picture quality. I'd come from a background of "the SLR rules" photography and always thought the Japanese were unbeatable.

If you get only marginal pictures from your FSUs, perhaps you need to look at your approach or perhaps you just need to get them serviced and set up properly.

As for a Bessa, I'm sure it's a fine camera but it's still only a light-tight box with a shutter. The lens takes the picture, with a little help from the photographer. The box just adds convenience and perhaps a few features that aren't, strictly, necessary. I'm wondering how a 70 year-old Bessa will fare...my NKVD is still fit for purpose at that age, albeit with new curtains and a new half-mirror (both still easily available). It's likely to be working when film isn't around and I'm not either.
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Well read my whole quote. I suggested they are an end in themselves. Somewhere else I suggested they are a disease. I also have lots of 200 year old clocks that keep perfect time and are even cruder than Russian cameras.

If you don't think Russian cameras are crude just look at the machining that is covered by formed brass sheet metal. Trust me Russian machining is crude. Now that is not to say it can't be adjusted and coaxed to perform quite well. I have gotten some nice shots from my Fed's and Zorki's. But that is after buying a dozen of them and sorting and adjusting and hoping. I balance that with a simple used Bessa that is as perfect as perfect gets and takes just lovely pictures every time. Many using those old Russian lenses, I might add.

Use a word like crude in forums that have sentiments riding high and you get hurt feelings almost as soon as the send button pops back up.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting that something has its own short comings especially if dealing with them gives you satisfaction.

All that and more is what these cameras are all about and I've only been playing with them for a month or so. I'm sure you old timers have a wealth of sentiments built into them and could relate hundreds of satisfied moments to us.

Bottom line why get hurt over admitting the simple truth, just accept it and enjoy dealing with it.
 
Ever hear of the first rule of holes?

Ever hear of the first rule of holes?

davelrods said:
All that and more is what these cameras are all about and I've only been playing with them for a month or so. I'm sure you old timers have a wealth of sentiments built into them and could relate hundreds of satisfied moments to us.

Bottom line why get hurt over admitting the simple truth, just accept it and enjoy dealing with it.
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Gosh, son, not sure where you get the idea of FSU fans as "old timers." But the first rule of holes is, when you find yourself in one, stop digging. You may have made an inadvertent crack at the cameras themselves but to then go off on everyone who likes them as some kind of deluded nostalgist who doesn't know good from bad is not helping. Everyone has their tastes and for what it's worth, you have more of this poorly-machined junk than I do.
 
davelrods said:
Well read my whole quote. I suggested they are an end in themselves. Somewhere else I suggested they are a disease. I also have lots of 200 year old clocks that keep perfect time and are even cruder than Russian cameras.
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I don't doubt that 200 year old clocks are cruder. They were handmade. I seriously doubt they keep perfect time. Firstly, in the strict sense, no clock keeps perfect time. Secondly, I know enough of horology from my father, whose lifelong interest was timepieces, to know that high-quality timekeepers were extremely rare 200 years ago.

davelrods said:
If you don't think Russian cameras are crude just look at the machining that is covered by formed brass sheet metal. Trust me Russian machining is crude. Now that is not to say it can't be adjusted and coaxed to perform quite well. I have gotten some nice shots from my Fed's and Zorki's. But that is after buying a dozen of them and sorting and adjusting and hoping.
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I have taken a fair few of them apart, I'm familiar with the insides of FSUs. Look at the sticky threads I've written, I know what they look like! Ever peeked inside a car engine? A television? A washing machine? What did you expect inside a mechanical device? Sub-micron precision-machined gold- plated parts? It's not necessary or cost-effective to make higher-than-needed quality where no-one sees it. Inside, it needs to be functional not pretty. FSUs are no worse that many others and not far behind the revered brands.

davelrods said:
I balance that with a simple used Bessa that is as perfect as perfect gets and takes just lovely pictures every time. Many using those old Russian lenses, I might add.
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Why bother with crude FSUs when you have a perfect camera then? Ever looked inside to see if it's neat and tidy in there?

davelrods said:
Use a word like crude in forums that have sentiments riding high and you get hurt feelings almost as soon as the send button pops back up.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting that something has its own short comings especially if dealing with them gives you satisfaction.
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They do have shortcomings, I haven't denied that. They come from a system where quantity was more important than quality. The outcome was predictable.

davelrods said:
All that and more is what these cameras are all about and I've only been playing with them for a month or so. I'm sure you old timers have a wealth of sentiments built into them and could relate hundreds of satisfied moments to us.

Bottom line why get hurt over admitting the simple truth, just accept it and enjoy dealing with it.
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I'm not hurt but I do feel patronised by being called an old-timer, like some grey-bearded old man sitting in a rocking-chair exchanging stories. I haven't seen the perfection of a Bessa yet though.

Nor do I accept your "truth" that they are crude and junk and a disease. Crude, to me, means something so badly made that either doesn't work or only just works. That may well apply to some examples, due to the lack of quality control but I've yet to see one that bad. Junk is something you throw away and I've not thrown any away yet. A disease? Possibly so in the way you meant but take a look in the other sub-sections and see if FSUs are alone. I know someone who collects mangles (yes, the clothes-mangle sort of machine). Odd? Maybe but it keeps him happy.
 
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Maybe the big question here is that some "old timers" do KNOW something about PHOTOGRAPHY, and are able to do a competent photograph with whatever camera they have at hand: new, old, very old...

The eye, the mind and the heart count! The rest are only tools...

Why do some people always insist on blaming the equipment first?

Did they bother to learn in the first place?

Rui

AL-MOST-LY PHOTOGRAPHY
 
It's easier to blame the equipment than to admit that they lack the skills. There's always a newer camera with a better lens over the next hill. The ads say that I'll get PERFECT pictures if only I buy one!
 
JayRmichigan said:
I've been getting pretty sick of carrying around a big heavy SLR whenever I want to take pictures, so I've been looking into buying a small compact Rangefinder and the FSU's intrigue me, especially the early Zorkis and Feds that came with the collapsable Industar 22. I like their look, and the fact that I could probably stick one in my back pocket, QUOTE]

The FED-1 is a fine example of minimalist design but there is nothing minimalist about the matrerials, so don't kid yourself that you can carry it in your back pocket. It is considerably heavier than my Ricoh 35mm SLR, and heavier than any digital I know of.

I love my FSUs but you will probably be better off with an Olympus Trip 35 or the like.
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olympus 35 RC

light, small, beautifull lens (but slow: 2.8)

AE and manual setting. All the OP needs

oh: and they can be had cheap.

The FSU route is a slippery path, and you need to be willing to tinker a bit.
That said: the Kiev 4 with J8 is one of my best image-takers and a joy to use, you can't beat a Sonnar!
 
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