So, if you can't float an Xpan,....

[Tim Gray]

You are right, they will be pretty similar. But, here's something to think about. How long have you had the SWC? How many shots have you taken with it? How many times have you cropped an SWC shot into a panoramic one?

 

[Rob-F]

I guess I don't understand the cropping thing.

If I use an SWC with its 38mm lens, and crop the film to 24mm x 60mm, that doesn't sound too far from the Xpan starting with a 24mm wide film but capturing a 65mm wide photo.

Either way, the vertical size is the same.

In one case, I've cropped it at home, the other case, the camera body did the cropping. And with the SWC, I've got the advantage of extra leeway on the vertical.


....Vick

Mostly true. Hasselblad format is 54mm wide though, not 60. So you can crop to 24 x 54mm. You can also use more than 24mm of the height, when it better suits the picture. The main limitation is that with the SWC finder, you can't tell if or when you have composed within a 24mm height. With a 500CM I can draw pencil lines on the groundglass to represent my 24mm safe area, or any other safe area height I want.

 

[newsgrunt]

If one doesn't have the camera at hand and knows a shot is going to be a panoramic, then cropping is the obvious solution. I just don't see the point in deliberately using a SWC for example, to shoot panoramics. I have an Xpan and a ULF and I use these cameras precisely because I need to feel and see things as I frame them, not play around with cropping post. Not to mention the cost of wasted film over time if you're cropping 6x6 down to 2.5x6. I couldn't afford film if I worked this way...ymmv

 

[Roger Hicks]

So... How many panoramas do you have to shoot with your Xpan before the savings on film for the Xpan, plus the price of the Xpan, pay for the film you could use in an existing rollfilm camera, and crop? Panoramas, furthermore, that are bigger (84 mm wide off most '6x9' cameras) and give you the option of cropping to give 'rise', 'fall' and different formats(1:2, 1:2.5, 1:3)?

IF you shoot lots of panoramas, I can see buying another camera. If not, not. Unlike some others, I have absolutely no problem with cropping to whatever format I want.

Cheers,

R.

 

[dave lackey]

Why is cropping so controversial? The whole act of photographing a motif is the exclusion of elements in the scene to get the composition. Cropping. It is as natural a part of photography as deciding not to include that beer can in background, or not showing the massive parking lot in the foreground.

If one likes to stitch, why not? If one prefers a pano camera, why not? If one decides on a particular format and crops, why not? Everyone has an opinion and should feel free to not limit their creativity.:angel:

 

[Monz]

Yeah, this is what I'm worried about regarding the "new old stock" Xpan that I found. I bet it has been in a box since 2004, unused, but all seized up.

Vick

Hi Vick,

As you know, there are two frame lines in the Xpan: 45mm and 90mm (the 30mm lens has its own clip on viewfinder). The 45/90 frame lines slide in and out depending on which lens is on the camera. There is an actuating cam in the throat of the camera in the 3 'o' clock position which is activated by the lens when it is put on the camera. Sometimes, this mechanism gets gummed up and you end up with, e.g., the 90mm frameline in the viewfinder when the 45mm lens is on the camera. Hasselblad will charge a tidy sum for fixing the problem; I have even heard that they insist on replacing the whole mechanism instead of doing a simple lubrication.

 

[rbelyell]

Fotoman is a 617! I love "reading online" vs. the fact that I own XPan, owned a Fotoman 617 and a Mamiya 7. I speak from experience...

yes, but you dont own a gaoersi, which was my point. the gaoesri 6x17 is much more portable than the fotoman; the gaoersi 6x12 is more portable still. these gaoersi and di ya's are designed to be extremely portable, the fotomam and horseman are not. no need to be nasty, especially when you seem to have missed the point.

as for the cropping debate, perhaps i dont understand it either. in general, cropping seems to me like any other post processing adjustment--perfectly fine as a tool for the artist to achieve his desired result. ansel adams certainly had no problem with it, so i dont either.

however, in this particular context it seems to me its like pouring a bottle of vodka into a milk carton and then thinking its ok for toddlers to drink, ie, changing the packaging doesnt change the product. all you're doing is changing the aspect ratio; you're not 'creating a pano', just repackaging a single frame picture. it seems to me, and its just my opinion, there is a big difference between a 'landscape' photo and a 'panoramic' photo--difference being pano contemplates coverage of a scene beyond the bounds of a single frame as we know them, either 35mm or on 120 film. its like saying in digital you can create a pano by using 16:9 aspect ratio. ironically, far from creating a pano, by cropping a single frame image, it seems to me we are shrinking the FOV rather than increasing it as contemplated by pano photographers. its not as much a matter of wasting film, or being artisically dishonest by post processing as much as it is defying the definition of 'panorama' photography.

 

[didjiman]

Except that a Gaoersi and a Fotoman is about the same size...

yes, but you dont own a gaoersi, which was my point. the gaoesri 6x17 is much more portable than the fotoman; the gaoersi 6x12 is more portable still. these gaoersi and di ya's are designed to be extremely portable, the fotomam and horseman are not. no need to be nasty, especially when you seem to have missed the point.

 

[ashfaque]

@ashfaque: thanks 🙂 For 600 GBP you may just about get an user XPan/45mm if you are patient and look hard on eBay and at fairs. I think it's important to make sure the lens in good condition and has the hood included (they cost 150 GBP separately and are rare). The centre spot filter can be had reasonably easily later (again about 150 GBP). Make sure the frame lines work correctly before parting with cash (there is a weakness in the design in this area).

Hi Monz. Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the info. Can you please elaborate about 'fairs'. I'd be gratful if you can kindly share some information about such fairs in UK.

Somewhat related: Will the local developers in Bangladesh (Dhaka, and possibly Chittagong,) be able to develop these wide negatives? I may go there later this year for a break.

 

[Tim Gray]

Developing Xpan is no different from developing any other 35mm film. Printing and/or scanning might be problematic for some people, but developing should pose no difficulties.

 

[atlcruiser]

I really dont care if anyone wants to crop or not.........one thing missing in this conversation is perspective.

It is almost impossible to "see" the panorama format when looking through a regular VF or GG. I have tried many times.

If you want pano shots and wont/cant afford a pano camera then you crop. I know that for me the pictures would not be the same at all. I look for things and see things very differently through the pano VF or GG and i believe these things would not be seen the same way in another format.

 

[GaryLH]

Developing Xpan is no different from developing any other 35mm film. Printing and/or scanning might be problematic for some people, but developing should pose no difficulties.

If it is going through a automated machine for development, ie. Not a individual user doing this processing, make sure that lab knows "do not cut". Auto cut of negative is done at end of the machine development cycle.

Gary

 

[Monz]

Hi Monz. Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the info. Can you please elaborate about 'fairs'. I'd be gratful if you can kindly share some information about such fairs in UK.

Somewhat related: Will the local developers in Bangladesh (Dhaka, and possibly Chittagong,) be able to develop these wide negatives? I may go there later this year for a break.

Hi Ashfaque,

There are regular camera fairs in the UK where dealers/enthusiasts meet and buy/sell gear. Usually there is a lot of film based gear. A well known fair in the UK is The Wolverhampton fair:

http://www.wolverhamptoncamerafair.co.uk/

The next Wolverhampton fair is on 2nd October 2011 (this coming Sunday)! Hurry!

Other camera fairs:
http://www.nanites.co.uk/Fairs 11.htm
http://www.apc4me.co.uk/cgi-local/camera.cgi?TASK=DrawEvents

Other useful info:
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.u..._Britains_camera_fairs_secondhand_285072.html
Developing the negatives should not be a problem in Bangladesh; certainly they should be able to do C41 film. Obviously they should not cut the film into 36mm wide negs! However, it is unlikely that they will be able to do panoramic prints from film. BD has gone digital in a big way. You are better off coming back to UK with the film and using a lab in the UK such as...

http://www.metrocolourlab.com/index_files/MetrocolourlabPanoramaandXPan.htm

.... who do good XPan package deals.

PM me if you want more info.

All the best.

--
Monz

 

[quantum-x]

I got an Xpan a couple months ago after toying with the idea for awhile. I use it less than I hoped for, but more than I figured I would. Haha. It's a lot of fun. Just get the version one and the 45. You should be able to land one for $1200-1500. At first I toyed with the idea of the 90 since it's affordable, but decided against it. The 30 is very expensive and I'm not sure if I'd really like it. The cool thing about panoramic in my mind is that it's wider than you would normally get, but not super wide. If that makes sense. When I want a real wide feel, I'd rather shoot with my 15 or 21 on my M.

I've got the TX2, 45 and 30mm. After getting the 30, the 45 just sits on the shelf - haven't touched it since. The 90 would have quite a few applications - but don't rule out the 30 as redundant.

 

[mel]

I am having a big bout of gas for a TX2/Xpan 2 and the 30mm. That, and a Rollei Wide. My daily shooter is a Widelux. Just picked up the filters. Frankly I'm thinking I can sell the Widelux rig for the TX2/Xpan 2 body and hold out for the 30mm, but I don't want to part with my Widelux.

 

[Roger Hicks]

yes, but you dont own a gaoersi, which was my point. the gaoesri 6x17 is much more portable than the fotoman; the gaoersi 6x12 is more portable still. these gaoersi and di ya's are designed to be extremely portable, the fotomam and horseman are not. no need to be nasty, especially when you seem to have missed the point.

as for the cropping debate, perhaps i dont understand it either. in general, cropping seems to me like any other post processing adjustment--perfectly fine as a tool for the artist to achieve his desired result. ansel adams certainly had no problem with it, so i dont either.

however, in this particular context it seems to me its like pouring a bottle of vodka into a milk carton and then thinking its ok for toddlers to drink, ie, changing the packaging doesnt change the product. all you're doing is changing the aspect ratio; you're not 'creating a pano', just repackaging a single frame picture. it seems to me, and its just my opinion, there is a big difference between a 'landscape' photo and a 'panoramic' photo--difference being pano contemplates coverage of a scene beyond the bounds of a single frame as we know them, either 35mm or on 120 film. its like saying in digital you can create a pano by using 16:9 aspect ratio. ironically, far from creating a pano, by cropping a single frame image, it seems to me we are shrinking the FOV rather than increasing it as contemplated by pano photographers. its not as much a matter of wasting film, or being artisically dishonest by post processing as much as it is defying the definition of 'panorama' photography.

Eh?

Take a 4x5 inch camera with (say) a 58mm lens.

Expose a sheet of 4x5 inch film. Crop to 56x112 mm.

Now put a loaded Horseman 6x12cm back on it. Expose. Bingo! Same image; no crop.

But in the latter you've 'created a pano' and in the former you haven't?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I really dont care if anyone wants to crop or not.........one thing missing in this conversation is perspective.

It is almost impossible to "see" the panorama format when looking through a regular VF or GG. I have tried many times.

If you want pano shots and wont/cant afford a pano camera then you crop. I know that for me the pictures would not be the same at all. I look for things and see things very differently through the pano VF or GG and i believe these things would not be seen the same way in another format.

So have I, also many times. I can't see why you find it at all difficult, let alone 'almost impossible'.

Cheers,

R.

 

[SciAggie]

I'm sitting in an airport for a long layover with nothing to do, so I'll throw in my two cents worth. With all the digital possibilities in post processing, why hasn't the option of stitching frames together been mentioned as an option? It is very easy to do with digital files. I have also done it with film after scanning. I find I do this somewhat frequently when I find a scene that would be nice in a panoramic view.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I'm sitting in an airport for a long layover with nothing to do, so I'll throw in my two cents worth. With all the digital possibilities in post processing, why hasn't the option of stitching frames together been mentioned as an option? It is very easy to do with digital files. I have also done it with film after scanning. I find I do this somewhat frequently when I find a scene that would be nice in a panoramic view.

Dear Gary,

You do realize that you risk being burned (or at least flamed) as a heretic, even though you're right?

For that matter, it's not that difficult to overlap physical prints, though it requires a fair amount of overlap, cunning and practice.

Cheers,

R.

 

[filmtwit]

I'd say, keep saving till you can have an xpan