back alley
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ok, first let me say that i have tried an m8.
and second, my sincere opinion is that pherdi's screen shot was very funny!
joe
and second, my sincere opinion is that pherdi's screen shot was very funny!
joe
x-ray
Veteran
jaapv said:
jaapv:
There are all kinds of pros and all levels from someone who shoots a few images and gets lucky and sells some to a friend to those of us that shoot for major magazines and corporations every day. The requirements for performance is dependant on what kind of photography each of us shoot. Event photographers need different equipment than commercial guys like me. Before digital in the 60's I was a PJ working my way through school shooting for AP,UPI and Esquire Magazine plus a few others. 98% of my work was leica M's. In the 70's when I got tired of being shot at I went commercial. At that time 8x10 and 4x5 were the norm and 120 MF was used from time to time but 35 was almost never used. Later in the 80's film and seperations improved and 4x5 and MF 120 were the norm. Before going all digital in the business 7 years ago almost 80% of my work was 120 6x6 and the rest 4x5 and 35mm. Now it's digital (1DsII canon gear) and 5% film (4x5). The requirements of every photographer is different. My needs dictate higher resolution than 10MP. In my business and from the demands of my clients 10MP is at the bottom limit of acceptable.
I also think that the "pro" component of LUG do not represent the majority of the "pro" market. Leica would be lucky to sell 1% annually of what Canon and Nikon sell in digital "pro" equipment. I agree that the M8 is aimed at the amateur market with the resources to buy it. It just not a camera that will have wide spread interest in the "pro" arena.
I'm not really certain where Leica gets the idea it's a "pro" camera. Look at the features of other "pro" systems and see for yourself. No dirt or water seals, no zooms, very limited lens selection compared to the slr world, limited sensor size, moderate pixel count, IR issues and high price. We have no idea about durability of the M8 at this point but the "pro" level canon and nikons are combat proven. If I'm correct Canon rates the shutter at a minimum of 200,000 actuations. The only two thing the M8 have going for it are size and RF focus under low light.
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jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I don't think there is any point in comparing DSLR's to DRF camera's They are different beasts. If I were for instance a wedding photographer I would prefer a M8 over a 1DsII, If I were a sports photographer the Canon would come first.Studio and product work? a phaseone digital back maybe? The definition of Pro- vs. Consumer vs. (YUK!) Prosumer is irrelevant if not impossible imo.I took a Mamiya 645 on safari (500 mm lens with 2x converter and the rest- my back hurts at the memory). Does that make me a professional? No-I haven't sold a photograph in my life ( some have been run in magazines-but that is something else . You might need a Holga for a certain effect. Does that make you an amateur? Rather not, I would guess. Tools for the job and out of the window with the labels! This argument could be made for a Leica M7 vs a Canon 1V in an identical way, so it is old hat. As for the Leica production rate vs Canon. I think if Leica were forced to produce a weeks run by Canon in a year the factory in Solms would go up in smoke. You cannot compare.
. You might need a Holga for a certain effect. Does that make you an amateur? Rather not, I would guess. Tools for the job and out of the window with the labels! This argument could be made for a Leica M7 vs a Canon 1V in an identical way, so it is old hat. As for the Leica production rate vs Canon. I think if Leica were forced to produce a weeks run by Canon in a year the factory in Solms would go up in smoke. You cannot compare.
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Bill58
Native Texan
A couple of mental gems: 1st, I can have an opinion about the M8 though I've never even seen one like I can have an opinion about Iraq though I haven't been there (don't you?). 2nd. Germany's fabled quality of mfg. has fallen like a round boulder down a 60 degree slope in the last 10-20 yrs. You can read that everywhere--even comments by retired Germans.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Och Bill, I personally strenuously avoid having an opinion on Iraq- it makes life a whole lot easier not to have one, and I agree that the old times were far better, but you are too restrictive - the whole world has gone to the dogs, not just Germany But still, these Germans build really nice Rolls-Royces nowadays. If Hitler had won the war, we would be driving superb Austins, Triumphs, who knows even Rovers to this day . But...The Brits retaliated by buying Märklin!
But still, these Germans build really nice Rolls-Royces nowadays. If Hitler had won the war, we would be driving superb Austins, Triumphs, who knows even Rovers to this day . But...The Brits retaliated by buying Märklin!
x-ray
Veteran
jaapv said:Och Bill, I personally strenuously avoid having an opinion on Iraq- it makes life a whole lot easier not to have one, and I agree that the old times were far better, but you are too restrictive - the whole world has gone to the dogs, not just Germany
British revenge, Lucas electric.
I had an MGB so I can have an opinion.
Oh yes, also a Porsche.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ah, Lucas- the Prince of Darkness.
scottgee1
RF renegade
x-ray said:British revenge, Lucas electric.
I had an MGB so I can have an opinion.
What a clever way to tell us you're in debt and walk a lot.
/ScottGee1
x-ray
Veteran
scottgee1 said:What a clever way to tell us you're in debt and walk a lot.
No debt, I don't buy anything I don't have the cash for. :angel: The bad part is my ex-wife took the porsche.
JohanV
another GAS victim
x-ray said:No debt, I don't buy anything I don't have the cash for. :angel: The bad part is my ex-wife took the porsche.
At any rate, the MGB should pull the younger ones...
x-ray
Veteran
JohanV said:At any rate, the MGB should pull the younger ones...
Sold the B years ago and the last sort of sports car was a 1971 Karman Ghia convertible that we restored to better than new. Deep metalic blue over silver and burgundy leather interior with black carpet. Sold that about a year ago and will buy a new 911 in the next year. Been saving my lunch money!!!
A little British car humor, no offense please.
Do you know why the British drink warm beer? Their refrigerators are made by Lucas!!!
Nothing personal!:angel:
rsl
Russell
x-ray said:Sold the B years ago and the last sort of sports car was a 1971 Karman Ghia convertible that we restored to better than new. Deep metalic blue over silver and burgundy leather interior with black carpet. Sold that about a year ago and will buy a new 911 in the next year. Been saving my lunch money!!!
A little British car humor, no offense please.
Do you know why the British drink warm beer? Their refrigerators are made by Lucas!!!
Nothing personal!:angel:
Is this the sports car forum or the rangefinder forum?
I drive a Honda Odyssey and I love it because it holds all my photo gear, including rangefinder gear.
JohanV
another GAS victim
...And I bought my first 911 six months ago, after twenty years of British cars...
(but I'll never sell my Morgan Roadster...)
(but I'll never sell my Morgan Roadster...)
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x-ray
Veteran
rsl said:Is this the sports car forum or the rangefinder forum?
I don't know if you remember the special promo but leica was giving away ( right, giving away) a Volkswagen Golf with the purchase of their 800mm R lens a few years ago. The said it was to carry the lens in. Can we say overpriced lens!
My work car is a Honda CRV to carry my equipment.
ywenz
Veteran
x-ray said:
They want the car the break down more often than the gear so you won't blame Leica when you can't get to your gig.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
JohanV said:
I sold my Morgan 4/4 - But am happily driving a Triumph TR4 now. My wife wants me to buy a Morgan again though....
Kim Coxon
Moderator
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Caterham 7 ? Nice!
MartinP
Veteran
I'm still smiling at X-rays post (#91). Long ago I was involved with some work on an old Triumph Bonneville and everyone agreed that the lighting was made by "Lucas, Prince of Darkness".
For those who don't know, Lucas made (still make ?) astonishingly widely used, but equally astonishingly ineffective, original-equipment electrical parts for old british motor-vehicles. I really hope they never touched refrigerators though...
EDIT: I just read the previous pages of posts, and Jaap beat me to it with the "Prince of Darkness" nickname ! One should always read a thread before posting. . . .errmmm, oops. Even 20 years ago I was astonished at the ineptitude of their gear and how it was installed everywhere <---- my limited sample consisted of the Triumph and a Morris Minor admittedly.
Also I should answer the question - no, I wouldn't buy a used M8. Possibly an M of another model though.
For those who don't know, Lucas made (still make ?) astonishingly widely used, but equally astonishingly ineffective, original-equipment electrical parts for old british motor-vehicles. I really hope they never touched refrigerators though...
EDIT: I just read the previous pages of posts, and Jaap beat me to it with the "Prince of Darkness" nickname ! One should always read a thread before posting. . . .errmmm, oops. Even 20 years ago I was astonished at the ineptitude of their gear and how it was installed everywhere <---- my limited sample consisted of the Triumph and a Morris Minor admittedly.
Also I should answer the question - no, I wouldn't buy a used M8. Possibly an M of another model though.
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x-ray
Veteran
Kim Coxon said:I have been a pilot in the RAF since '76. Initially Shackletons and then Nimrod. More recently on the AWACS and instructing basic pilots and navigators (or "weapon system operators" as they are now known.) I have been involved in most of the conflicts that the Brits have been involved in since the Falklands War. It puts a different perspective on things. It rather makes the petty bitching and name calling around the M8 rather pointless. I take photos for my enjoyment using cameras I like to use and can afford. I don't really care what others think of my gear and I don't really care what gear they choose to use. I am more interested in the photos they take and in learning in how to improve mine.
Mind you being a military pilot does give you some advantages. http://www.pentax-manuals.com/gallery/gallery.htm
Hope the electrical in your aircraft isn't Lucas.
I flew an Aeronca Champ for many years and one of the best features was the lack of electrical system other than the mags. The airspeed indicator was a calendar and the fuel gauge was a wire on a cork that stuck through the fuel cap and bobbed up and down. I guessed the fuel by averaging the up and down of the wire. No big worry with a full tank and consuming a whopping 3.5 gallons per hour.