Rogier
Rogier Willems
That show up in the press.....
Forget about taking a rangefinder, painted black and blend inn to capture the "Moment" here is how the "Pro's" do it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Dx9LjnQOY#t=55s
Forget about taking a rangefinder, painted black and blend inn to capture the "Moment" here is how the "Pro's" do it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Dx9LjnQOY#t=55s
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Damn. A lot of my idols are falling off their pedestals....
Andrea Taurisano
il cimento
As the guy said, there is a pressing demand from the media and there must be continuous supply of photos from photographers. So, as George wrote, disappointing maybe, but not surprising. I still don't think James Nachtwey's shots were staged.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
................................. Forget about taking a rangefinder, painted black and blend inn to capture the "Moment" here is how the "Pro's" do it
I love the way Youtube is always able to simplify complex issues. Why study? Just watch one Youtube video.
FWIW, Robert Capa (remember him?) wrote about and was bothered by the way photographers would influence the action they are recording.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
In my experience there is more than just an element of 'truth' to this, however it would be foolish (and insulting to the many courageous, honest and hard working photographers) to believe that all images of unrest, rioting and war are staged in this kind of manner.
I have no experience of photographing war, the affects of war or anything much like it. I do have plenty of experience of photographing rioting, political demonstrations and the civil unrest that is prevalent in much of the West in recent years and it is in this arena that I can honestly say that I have seen a number of photographers setting up shots, suggesting poses/actions and generally having some level of influence over some of their subjects.
I've also seen fellow photographers react very differently when seeing some of their peers act in this way. Disgust, annoyance, disappointment, understanding, laughter, p!ss taking...it's all there.
Personally I don't see why we, as an audience, shouldn't expect some level of this to be happening, as Bob Michaels has pointed out....it's not a new issue.
I have no experience of photographing war, the affects of war or anything much like it. I do have plenty of experience of photographing rioting, political demonstrations and the civil unrest that is prevalent in much of the West in recent years and it is in this arena that I can honestly say that I have seen a number of photographers setting up shots, suggesting poses/actions and generally having some level of influence over some of their subjects.
I've also seen fellow photographers react very differently when seeing some of their peers act in this way. Disgust, annoyance, disappointment, understanding, laughter, p!ss taking...it's all there.
Personally I don't see why we, as an audience, shouldn't expect some level of this to be happening, as Bob Michaels has pointed out....it's not a new issue.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
In defense of the photojournalist profession, I suspect the photographers portrayed in the Youtube video are not getting the good assignments these days. I also suspect the person who made the video does not have many photojournalist friends these days. We have an expression down here in the south "p*ssing in your boots to keep your feet warm"
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
swoop
Well-known
This stuff happens. But there's a lot of street roaming still. I read a bio of Tyler Hicks a few years ago that said he'd only go out like 20 minutes a day on his own to get photos. And even covering metro news there's occasions where I've been the only one there at a crime scene/fire for a good 30 minutes or so before another media outlet showed up and it turns into that kind of thing you see in the video.
Araakii
Well-known
This ties to the Eric Kim thread about street shots being staged. Those who thinks that a good shot shouldn't be staged will definitely be very disappointed.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
With regard to that kind of staging ( i.e. street ) you also have the problem of who defines staging? Some seem to believe that to stop in one spot and wait is a form of staging your shots. Others, like Eric, might make suggestions to the people they photograph. Whilst another may even physically move the subject around.
N.delaRua
Well-known
I find this perspective fascinating. When I go into the field for research trips into Guatemala, sometimes I struggle to put the camera to my face because my love of photography gets me my brain excited about making some huge statement about humanity via a photograph, but in the very moment I feel a human connection to just let the moment be....
Prime example was a photograph of the oldest woman I have met in the countryside who was in such bad condition. The minute I saw her, I knew the kind of impact the photos would have, and the woman I was working with suggested I photograph her. I wanted to photo her hands and feet in dramatic ways and so forth, but I just couldn't bring my self to do it. I felt like it would totally objectify her. After asking her for a photo sure enough she starts to fix her hair and say how bad she looks and so on, but I just told her how pretty I thought she was and bam she gives me a look and a smile.
I think my upbringing wanted to objectify her and her suffering to make powerful images but of the three shots I took of her, the smile and classic portrait is my favorite. Its probably not the most dramatic or moving image that could have been captured, and my photography brain wanted to shoot a whole roll of just her, but my heart only let me take three images...
I'm very glad this was just personal work because if I was paying the bills I would have definitely shot a roll of her, and would have used my "creative" tool box to try to make some sort of consumable statement.
The Portrait
The beginnings of something else...
Sometimes, when I travel I like to think I am just documenting what I see, but I know I am bending reality.... That is what we want though, we want powerful images that capture the imagination and feed our stereotypes.
Prime example was a photograph of the oldest woman I have met in the countryside who was in such bad condition. The minute I saw her, I knew the kind of impact the photos would have, and the woman I was working with suggested I photograph her. I wanted to photo her hands and feet in dramatic ways and so forth, but I just couldn't bring my self to do it. I felt like it would totally objectify her. After asking her for a photo sure enough she starts to fix her hair and say how bad she looks and so on, but I just told her how pretty I thought she was and bam she gives me a look and a smile.
I think my upbringing wanted to objectify her and her suffering to make powerful images but of the three shots I took of her, the smile and classic portrait is my favorite. Its probably not the most dramatic or moving image that could have been captured, and my photography brain wanted to shoot a whole roll of just her, but my heart only let me take three images...
I'm very glad this was just personal work because if I was paying the bills I would have definitely shot a roll of her, and would have used my "creative" tool box to try to make some sort of consumable statement.
The Portrait
The beginnings of something else...
Sometimes, when I travel I like to think I am just documenting what I see, but I know I am bending reality.... That is what we want though, we want powerful images that capture the imagination and feed our stereotypes.
paulfish4570
Veteran
very interesting thread ...
The Expanding Man
Member
Modern journalism is not journalism in the same way that WWF wrestling is not sport.
It's all entertainment.
It's all entertainment.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Be aware there are some current photojournalists that would really be offended. Not all, maybe not even a majority, but certainly some. And, they are the ones that count.
Remi Ochlik, Tim Hetherington, and Chris Hondros immediately come to mind. They paid the ultimate price in the last 12 months. Try telling James Nachtwey that it is all just entertainment.
finguanzo
Well-known
Exactly what I was thinking....
The Expanding Man
Member
Point taken. I should have been more careful and less general with my words.
However, I don't retract the general sentiment.
There's nothing wrong with staging something for art, but journalism? Nah, that's not right. It's to be expected though...
I don't think you can compare Eric Kim to a journalist. Different intentions and audiences.
kanzlr
Hexaneur
WWF wrestling IS sport. It is just staged, but still sport. Those guys are highly skilled and well trained.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Why the disappointments?
Those photographers are people, just like you and I.
What would you do in their shoes?
What would you do if you had their boss, deadlines, demands, and job on the line?
Why are they wearing gas masks and helmet? I don't see Peter Jackson wearing those in his video blog on "The Hobbits" that's because unlike the Israeli borders, *real* riots don't break out in Hollywood Studios (at least not yet). And real riots do not follow a certain schedule. And when real riots do break out, do they get a bonus paycheck?
As though we'd care more about the situation if the scenes were not staged.
Give them a break.
Those photographers are people, just like you and I.
What would you do in their shoes?
What would you do if you had their boss, deadlines, demands, and job on the line?
Why are they wearing gas masks and helmet? I don't see Peter Jackson wearing those in his video blog on "The Hobbits" that's because unlike the Israeli borders, *real* riots don't break out in Hollywood Studios (at least not yet). And real riots do not follow a certain schedule. And when real riots do break out, do they get a bonus paycheck?
As though we'd care more about the situation if the scenes were not staged.
Give them a break.